And I found this
It is the yh200-2 'louder speaker' and you guessed it right because of its funny name, it's Chinese. The google translate says it can 'make it prettier'. Hmmm.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It is the yh200-2 'louder speaker' and you guessed it right because of its funny name, it's Chinese. The google translate says it can 'make it prettier'. Hmmm.
Man, you are really dedicated. Keep up your endeavors it will benefit many of
us Horn Freaks. When you are finished I visit you for a listen
I have a friend who comesfrom near Alingsas. Are you by any chance within 100km?
Klaus
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That all makes sense - except that the WE 555 on the WE 15a is by far the cleanest midrange I've ever heard. Nothing else comes close. I never measured one, but to my ear it was the cleanest thing I've ever heard in that range. Amazingly so. If that's distortion - give me more of it!
Those are exactly my thoughts. Why in the world is the WE555 on the 15A so
clean sounding if it runs even below 100hz?
What I really would like to try is a Karlson with a compression driver.
Magnetar had a Emilar 1" on a tube running that reportedly sounded better
than his JBL 2405 but goes down to 2khz rather than 6khz. This tells me
that the principle itself exhibits very low distortion.
The Karlson 12" and 15" versions also sound really good even though they
fight with two annulling frequencies because of the back wave feeding into
the front chamber and the port. This 35" high cabinet works on the Karlson
principle down to 130hz and below that it turns into a normal radiator with
bass reflex. I would assume that a 70" conical cone with a Karlson slit could
work really good. It would look like a big wizards hat being fed from a driver
sitting on top. Easy and cheap to build also.
Klaus
Here are the distortion tests that Dietmar did yesterday.
Let's give him a big applause as he responds to questions from a forum in which
he is not even involved.
Anyway here is the distortion for 100db:
SPL-Meter in 0,7m distance(to keep reflections down).
measuring microphone at the horn mouth on axis; no crossover;
measured with stepped Sinus(ARTA) :
1,5V eff at K55= 150 milliwatt for 100db !!!
At app. 150 Hz D2 distortion is about -40db (1%), D3 even only -60 db (0,1%)
At 110db D3 raises significantly see pic two.
Higher listening levels at home are in the low 90s averaged.
Let's give him a big applause as he responds to questions from a forum in which
he is not even involved.
Anyway here is the distortion for 100db:
SPL-Meter in 0,7m distance(to keep reflections down).
measuring microphone at the horn mouth on axis; no crossover;
measured with stepped Sinus(ARTA) :
1,5V eff at K55= 150 milliwatt for 100db !!!
At app. 150 Hz D2 distortion is about -40db (1%), D3 even only -60 db (0,1%)
At 110db D3 raises significantly see pic two.
Higher listening levels at home are in the low 90s averaged.
Attachments
Man, you are really dedicated. Keep up your endeavors it will benefit many of
us Horn Freaks. When you are finished I visit you for a listen
from near Alingsas. Are you by any chance within 100km?
Klaus
My reasoning is that the K55's are so beautiful, I don't want to cut a hole through them. If I can find a replacement I can spare the drivers. Especially with drivers that do not need extra work to go down to 100Hz.
BTW, my Goto horn is insane right now. As tall as I am almost. It is going to get some white paint today, if the primer is dry.
The S-150 has a recommended lowest crossover point of 200Hz. Is there a way to make it go lower? Can I just build a bigger mouth without changing the angle of the whole horn? The mouth right now is 75cm, but it is cut short. If it would have the shape of the 95cm mouth Avantgarde Trio midbasshorn I bet it would be even bigger.
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Big thanks to Dietmar and Radian for those ARTA plots!
Very clean, very consistent at the 100dB level. Interesting how H3 gets funky at the higher level. Art, what's your take on that?
You must be on the east coast or a really early bird.
I thought from back of an envelope figuring that the distortion would reach around 10% at 113 dB at one meter.Big thanks to Dietmar and Radian for those ARTA plots!
Very clean, very consistent at the 100dB level. Interesting how H3 gets funky at the higher level. Art, what's your take on that?
As Dietmar's test shows, it reaches around 18% distortion at 150 Hz at only 110 dB at .7 meter.
Using the inverse distance law, 110 dB at .7 m equals a direct sound at 2.8 meters (9.1 feet) of 98 dB, only 88 db for the 100 dB level.
I had "kinda" thought the Sato would keep up in level with a 12" in a small box, looks more like an 8".
As far as curves in a horn eliminating distortion, that would only happen to the extent that the curves reduce HF, and Deitmar's Sato certainly does not do that.
At any rate, the distortion levels seem in line with what I had expected for a small diaphragm at "realistic" levels.
I say "realistic", as large drums can easily exceed 110 dB SPL at 150 Hz.
That said, the harmonic content of drums makes distortion hard to detect
.Thanks, Klaus and Dietmar for providing the data.
Art
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weltersys,
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. It would be very difficult to impossible for a small diaphragm compression driver on a reasonable sized horn to keep up with an 8" cone driver at 150hz or a 10" and not drive the compression driver into distortion at higher outputs. Fighting to make a device do something that it wasn't intended for just seems silly. Even back in the dark ages or the 1930's or 40's a 15" speaker would cover the range that we are talking about as they understood the distortion limits of the high frequency component in a two way system.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. It would be very difficult to impossible for a small diaphragm compression driver on a reasonable sized horn to keep up with an 8" cone driver at 150hz or a 10" and not drive the compression driver into distortion at higher outputs. Fighting to make a device do something that it wasn't intended for just seems silly. Even back in the dark ages or the 1930's or 40's a 15" speaker would cover the range that we are talking about as they understood the distortion limits of the high frequency component in a two way system.
Don't worry guys no reports of distorting sounds from WE15A . As noted earlier
they where installed in many theaters where they exceed home listening levels
easily. Of course a horn with the length and the dimensions of the 15A reproduces 100hz at lambda two. That makes a big part of the performance.
.
Regarding the rise in distortion at the higher output level, the 3H component is not relatively uniform across the range in its rise, unlike the second harmonic. I see distinct spikes, albeit a lot of them and it makes me wonder if diaphragm break up is occurring down low due to high excursions and high compression. I wonder thus, if the distortion both in its level and general shape, would be different if the driver were to be tested at the same or even higher SPL's but high-passed at say 200-250Hz.