Absoultely my listening impressions..
I am a 38 years audio DIYer. And in these long years I made and of course listened a lot of amplifiers, preamplifiers, DACs etc.. Listened a lot of commercial equipments. And as a result of my experiments I saw JFET and MOSFET circuits sound more like tube amplifiers.
Personally I dont like pure solid state sound because I am an relatively old man and my ears are more familiar with the tube sound. (push pull or SE)
So I can exactly say that circuits with JFET give me similar feelings.
Makes no difference in a opamp as far as " tube sound" with Jfet
Jfet has lower current noise than BJT
So Jfet opamp is somewhat common in mixers and preamps since they can have lower noise.
Tube amps have tend to have more distortion. And it doesnt always mean clipping distortion.
With what a guitar player would call " Clean" tone. The harmonic profile of tubes still has high distortion.
Changing opamps wont make it sound more tube like at all.
Going from a 4558 to a 5532 opamp is completly opposite of tube.
5532 might have slightly faster Slew rate. So high frequency distortion might be lower.
In a mixer ....No
If you wanted to emulate a " tube" amp in the mixer.
Then upgrading to a faster cleaner opamp is no where close.
This is a mixer, with tone controls/ gain control.
You could use a opamp with .001 distortion and opamp with .000001 distortion.
But all the cascaded opamps and filter networks make it non audible difference.
5532 = .0005 distortion
OPA1612 = .000015 distortion
after signal goes through all mixer gain/tone controls= .003 distortion or higher
Microphones and music instruments need high gain to bring things up to line level.
So high gain preamp could have a lot of noise......hissing
unfortunately most music PA have cheap power supply.
So the humming is more noisy than the hissing.
Jfet opamp more useful in studio microphone/ mixer
where hissing be more audible in recording.
Live amplifier / mixer make no difference.
This is hilarious because 4558 is so called "magical" opamp used in tube screamer distortion pedal.
which is supposed to sound like " tube" amp.
all these myths are false. but there is hundreds of videos and 400 dollar tube screamers with 4558 that " sound better"
it is 50 cent general purpose opamp. Just like TLO72 jfet opamp....50 cents not 400 dollars.
Jfet has lower current noise than BJT
So Jfet opamp is somewhat common in mixers and preamps since they can have lower noise.
Tube amps have tend to have more distortion. And it doesnt always mean clipping distortion.
With what a guitar player would call " Clean" tone. The harmonic profile of tubes still has high distortion.
Changing opamps wont make it sound more tube like at all.
Going from a 4558 to a 5532 opamp is completly opposite of tube.
5532 might have slightly faster Slew rate. So high frequency distortion might be lower.
In a mixer ....No
If you wanted to emulate a " tube" amp in the mixer.
Then upgrading to a faster cleaner opamp is no where close.
This is a mixer, with tone controls/ gain control.
You could use a opamp with .001 distortion and opamp with .000001 distortion.
But all the cascaded opamps and filter networks make it non audible difference.
5532 = .0005 distortion
OPA1612 = .000015 distortion
after signal goes through all mixer gain/tone controls= .003 distortion or higher
Microphones and music instruments need high gain to bring things up to line level.
So high gain preamp could have a lot of noise......hissing
unfortunately most music PA have cheap power supply.
So the humming is more noisy than the hissing.
Jfet opamp more useful in studio microphone/ mixer
where hissing be more audible in recording.
Live amplifier / mixer make no difference.
This is hilarious because 4558 is so called "magical" opamp used in tube screamer distortion pedal.
which is supposed to sound like " tube" amp.
all these myths are false. but there is hundreds of videos and 400 dollar tube screamers with 4558 that " sound better"
it is 50 cent general purpose opamp. Just like TLO72 jfet opamp....50 cents not 400 dollars.
another zillionth topic on swaping njm4558 ...without a schematic the results of swaping op-amps are purely random and no useful conclusion comes to mind...
Slew rates, V/uS
4558 is 4
5532 is 8
TL072 different variants 13 (072CP), and 16 (072ACN).
2134 is 20
So this means the op amp is faster to respond to changes in input.
ST actually cautions in their TDA series data sheets the the pre amp should not be faster then the main amp, and more than 20 is going to cause problems.
See below for calculations, it seems the 4558 is enough for audio, seems to be good to 100kHz!
Anything more is icing on the cake.
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51821
4558 is 4
5532 is 8
TL072 different variants 13 (072CP), and 16 (072ACN).
2134 is 20
So this means the op amp is faster to respond to changes in input.
ST actually cautions in their TDA series data sheets the the pre amp should not be faster then the main amp, and more than 20 is going to cause problems.
See below for calculations, it seems the 4558 is enough for audio, seems to be good to 100kHz!
Anything more is icing on the cake.
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51821
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Local prices, some time back, Indian Rupees:
TI TL072 = 15
Kia 4558 = 20
TI or other 5532 = 20
JRC 5532 = 30
JRC is considered better, but these are cheap jellybean parts, not exotic parts. 30 Rupees is like 40 US cents!
TI TL072 = 15
Kia 4558 = 20
TI or other 5532 = 20
JRC 5532 = 30
JRC is considered better, but these are cheap jellybean parts, not exotic parts. 30 Rupees is like 40 US cents!
I did not start this topic with the merits of discussing tube amplifiers × solid state amplifiers.
I just wanted to upgrade the 4558 on my audio monitors.
Probably the results I heard are psycholigocos and I'm not sure of the originality of the OPA2134, I'll go back to the 4558 and keep the original speakers.
I just wanted to upgrade the 4558 on my audio monitors.
Probably the results I heard are psycholigocos and I'm not sure of the originality of the OPA2134, I'll go back to the 4558 and keep the original speakers.
Be careful of damaging the PCB tracks, I have no idea of your competence level, no offense meant.
Bear in mind the fact that those are SMD, and Yamaha could have put 5532, the price difference in bulk would be too small to bother.
So think why they did so.
Bear in mind the fact that those are SMD, and Yamaha could have put 5532, the price difference in bulk would be too small to bother.
So think why they did so.
I have technical assistance, I have tools and experience in SMD welding. The 4558 should already be competent enough for that application on that particular product.
Seems to me, after reading numerous positive reviews about these speakers, and the $500+ price each, plus the engineering that Yamaha has already put into them, why would anyone not be satisfied with their performance?
Why would anyone attempt to make improvements that Yamaha already did in a laboratory and engineering department?
Why would anyone attempt to make improvements that Yamaha already did in a laboratory and engineering department?
Internet is full of self styled gurus.
And maybe he listened to a poor recording...I had multiple copies of the same song, ranging from just 128 to 320 kbps resolution, and there was a difference when listening, I use a computer connected to an amplifier.
I used a duplicate file finder, and removed all the low resolution copies from my computer.
And it sounds so easy, just change the chips, and voila! And for so little! A nice Sunday afternoon or rainy day job!
Sadly, most of these projects do not have a satisfactory ending.
And maybe he listened to a poor recording...I had multiple copies of the same song, ranging from just 128 to 320 kbps resolution, and there was a difference when listening, I use a computer connected to an amplifier.
I used a duplicate file finder, and removed all the low resolution copies from my computer.
And it sounds so easy, just change the chips, and voila! And for so little! A nice Sunday afternoon or rainy day job!
Sadly, most of these projects do not have a satisfactory ending.
My signal source is a Focusrite REDNET AM2, I buy tracks in AIFF format with a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz and a bit rate of 1411.
You're right, there's no point in messing with something that's good enough.
Maybe I was influenced by the internet and a site that makes this type of modification called zenproaudio.com
Your unit has 5532 inside, not the higher slew rate devices. And CapXon - semi competent Chinese - capacitors...at least a blue one.
Like I said, leave well enough alone.
We do have some OCD members here, one uses fish tank or reptile nest heaters for the granite base plate of his home made turn table.
Point is that granite has a negligible thermal expansion coefficient, so keeping it at a constant temperature, with a thermostat or other control system, was a waste of time and effort.
But he wanted to do it, and it satisfied some deep need in his mind.
Be happy, that is the purpose of life.
Like I said, leave well enough alone.
We do have some OCD members here, one uses fish tank or reptile nest heaters for the granite base plate of his home made turn table.
Point is that granite has a negligible thermal expansion coefficient, so keeping it at a constant temperature, with a thermostat or other control system, was a waste of time and effort.
But he wanted to do it, and it satisfied some deep need in his mind.
Be happy, that is the purpose of life.
Indeed, OCD is a sickness of sorts, my sister has that sort of compulsion going on.
She's single, 67, long divorced, had 2 strokes, has a heart monitor, takes multiple prescriptions, and she can't help herself.
She does laundry several times a week, buys overpriced crap from magazines, spends spends spends...$$$
Lives on SSI, can't seem to manage her money, and hides things and lies about what she does.
She refuses to live within her means, and denies that she has a problem.
Yes, it's a sickness alright. 😈
Worth testing as manufacturers cut corners all the time and better specc'ed devices come out regularly.
On the other hand, if the circuit has been built with one device in mind and in the manufacturer's tests, you should also check whether a new device doesn't make the circuit deviate negatively from what the manufacturer intended. A new 'better' op amp can actually start oscillating and affecting sound in a bad way if some measures aren't taken.
I would also use a scope to check whether there is any oscillation with the new op amps. If so, you'd need to at least add bypass caps to the op amp power rails. The datasheet should help here for the implementation. Then install and re-check with the scope.
Only after that, do your critical listening.
In any case, if the original implementation sounds better, you can always revert to that. If the new ones sound better, you win with a little effort.
It's your gear, you can do anything you want with it, no matter what other people say.
On the other hand, if the circuit has been built with one device in mind and in the manufacturer's tests, you should also check whether a new device doesn't make the circuit deviate negatively from what the manufacturer intended. A new 'better' op amp can actually start oscillating and affecting sound in a bad way if some measures aren't taken.
I would also use a scope to check whether there is any oscillation with the new op amps. If so, you'd need to at least add bypass caps to the op amp power rails. The datasheet should help here for the implementation. Then install and re-check with the scope.
Only after that, do your critical listening.
In any case, if the original implementation sounds better, you can always revert to that. If the new ones sound better, you win with a little effort.
It's your gear, you can do anything you want with it, no matter what other people say.
My point was that the 4558 and 5532 were first in DIP, and much later in SMD housings, and the price difference in OEM quantities would be negligible.
Another thing is that the 2134 he got could be laser marked op amps of a cheaper version.
And like you said, it is his gear, he has to decide after listening if there was any change.
Suppose the new ones are really 4558 or 5532?
Another thing is that the 2134 he got could be laser marked op amps of a cheaper version.
And like you said, it is his gear, he has to decide after listening if there was any change.
Suppose the new ones are really 4558 or 5532?
I went back to the original 4558, listened a little and the sound is the same, maybe I raised expectations on the 2134 and thought it was better.
The 4558 return operation went well.
In professional audio equipment NE5532 is operated in balanced mode which is giving away with its inherent CMRR and common mode distortions...not 100% sure, but it seems that ne5532 operated in unbalanced mode doesn't perform audibly as well as the balanced mode especially in unity gain circuits.
I suspected as much. (the expectations)
It's usually due to listening to others on the internet, and believing what they believe.
First, you don't know who is on the other end of your keyboard.
Second, you have no idea of their qualifications.
Third, Talk is cheap, and I could say ANYthing to people across the internet, and some will believe me, others refuse to.
In fact, there's only a small... small percentage of real and honest "unbiased and educated technicians" that I even pay attention to.
Being in the business for decades taught me that lesson, and having hands-on experience daily for decades, plus knowing what-if any real benefits come from modifications of products.
Seems that a lot of people simply don't understand that big corporations like Yamaha, Panasonic, etc, already spent time in research and development, testing, etc, in well equipped labs, with resources that a DYI'er doesn't have.
Granted, some products can be upgraded - to a point, budget models in particular, where cost-cutting is involved.
