I am aware they're 2 different animals but for portability, although 8001 is cheaper used than PL I wish not to carry a boat anchor in my DJ setup. I was planning on using the Crest as from years ago before these lightweights were used in concerts and permanent installs, but my back is not the same as when I was 25 years old. I wish to use 2 x QSC PL amp used market for a full range and sub for my DJ rig (BFM 12 Omni Tallboy/ Double 2226 loaded diy sub). In comparison my question is the Crest give better bottom end and more ump than the PL. Can someone maybe give me a little education between these 2 amps.
The subs hp at 40Hz(40-100Hz sub). Thanks!😕
The subs hp at 40Hz(40-100Hz sub). Thanks!😕
I've done some testing on a QSC PL230 and was quite impressed by its performance. The Crest 8001 does have some ridiculous filter capacitors in it, but the QSC uses a switching power supply- so it isn't directly comparable. I suspect that the QSC may actually have a slight advantage for low frequency applications due to its slightly higher damping factor- though that is just going off the spec sheets.
The QSC is much newer, and will very likely be more reliable with more advanced protection circuits. It's also lighter and more efficient. Those old Crest amps sound great, but I've never considered them to be as reliable as the QSC and MC2 amps.
There is a stigma against switching power supplies that isn't necessarily based on fact. The one in the QSC is a well-designed unit that works well. It also doesn't fill half the chassis with capacitors.
The Crest is a great amp- smaller amps from that series are regularly used as monitor amps in studios. That said, I really think you're better off with the QSC for this.
The QSC is much newer, and will very likely be more reliable with more advanced protection circuits. It's also lighter and more efficient. Those old Crest amps sound great, but I've never considered them to be as reliable as the QSC and MC2 amps.
There is a stigma against switching power supplies that isn't necessarily based on fact. The one in the QSC is a well-designed unit that works well. It also doesn't fill half the chassis with capacitors.
The Crest is a great amp- smaller amps from that series are regularly used as monitor amps in studios. That said, I really think you're better off with the QSC for this.
QSC.
Will still have enough power to fry your subs and will save your back. One of the most reliable amp lines ever made as well.
Will still have enough power to fry your subs and will save your back. One of the most reliable amp lines ever made as well.
I almost never see QSC amps with faults. Neither myself nor any of my buddies have had to do anything beyond replacing input op-amps, which are a common issue on any amplifier.
As a contrast... I have a CA9 sitting next to me with about 20V of DC on both channels. The circuit design of this amp is pretty close to that of the 8001. The CA9 had a twin sister that had too many blown output devices to justify fixing, so its chassis and heatsinks will get turned into a power supply. I really do like Crest amps, but I've never considered them to be very reliable.
MC2 is about the only other company that can touch the QSC for reliability, I see precious few MC series amps that have issues beyond faulty cooling fans, even after 100,000 hours of usage in an installation. Of course... and MC650 is even more expensive and less powerful. Don't buy one unless it comes with a coupon for a free back surgery.
As a contrast... I have a CA9 sitting next to me with about 20V of DC on both channels. The circuit design of this amp is pretty close to that of the 8001. The CA9 had a twin sister that had too many blown output devices to justify fixing, so its chassis and heatsinks will get turned into a power supply. I really do like Crest amps, but I've never considered them to be very reliable.
MC2 is about the only other company that can touch the QSC for reliability, I see precious few MC series amps that have issues beyond faulty cooling fans, even after 100,000 hours of usage in an installation. Of course... and MC650 is even more expensive and less powerful. Don't buy one unless it comes with a coupon for a free back surgery.
Do you mean the PL236? I'm not seeing any info on a PL238.
There is also a PL380 but it's a real beast.. pretty much twice as powerful as the 236 and 8001.
How are you intending to use these... 1 cabinet per channel or bridged mode? The PL and PLX series are not the best performers at 4ohm bridged, they are more optimized for 4ohm stereo operation.
What are you using now to power this system?
You could go "all in" for maximum weight savings and get class D amps but I'd understand if you're not crazy about the sound of those on highs, and having matching amps in the rack does look more pro IMO.
There is also a PL380 but it's a real beast.. pretty much twice as powerful as the 236 and 8001.
How are you intending to use these... 1 cabinet per channel or bridged mode? The PL and PLX series are not the best performers at 4ohm bridged, they are more optimized for 4ohm stereo operation.
What are you using now to power this system?
You could go "all in" for maximum weight savings and get class D amps but I'd understand if you're not crazy about the sound of those on highs, and having matching amps in the rack does look more pro IMO.
Yes you're right it s the PL236, I am using Crest 7200, 8 ohm stereo on the BFM full range it gives a lot of ump on the bottom. The double 15 subs I am almost done, will be painting soon. I can't afford the used PL 380 and really the venues with these set up does not call for a big amp. These setup was intended for up to 300 crowds wedding or birthday parties. I guess I will be looking at the used 236's then. although most serial numbers I see for sale on eBay are 14-16 years old that I can afford. Thanks for the reply guys.
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Some of the PL2 series is getting pretty old, but they're solid amps and I wouldn't worry too much. Try to find some that haven't been toured extensively if you can, but in general these things don't fail too often.
The PLs will be quite the upgrade then, you are adding subs and more than doubling the systems amp power.
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the sound of these two amps as well, the Crest is a class D while the QSC is class H(stepped class AB).
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the sound of these two amps as well, the Crest is a class D while the QSC is class H(stepped class AB).
You sure on the Crest 7200 being a class D? I thought it was using a class H output stage as well, only with a switching power supply.
Not these nowadays.
Try fp10000q, even chineese clones.
Four ~1kw/8ohm channels in a 2U/350mm case.
So small "everyday portable" rig can be places in 5U case with top 2u for elevating mixer panel, then 1u for driverack PA2/260 and last 2u for amp. Such a case can provide you with a delicated x-overing and feedback cancelling for most of the events.
The only argue to using "classical" amps is a dedicated HF driver channel in a 3-way systems or HF and MF channels in a 4-way systems. Such an amps not needed to be powerful, ~200-400 wt/8Ohm are good enough.
Older amps still work just fine, they just may not offer the power-to-weight and power-to-rack-units ratios of modern amps.
We just did an install using a QSC PL218 and PL224 with Turbosound TQ440s. PL218 on the highs, PL224 on the lows, using a BLU-160 for active crossovers and signal processing. There is nothing not to like about such a system. Yes, the equipment is older, but it is also very, very well-engineered and was very costly when new.
Lab Gruppen has made some great stuff in the past, although from what I understand there has been some decline in quality since their acquisition by Music Group. The FP10000Q still costs a fortune these days. Convenient, sure, but not cheap.
FWIW, MC2 does have some very good four-channel power amps in the E-series and Delta series. I would prefer to buy from them, just because I like to support companies that aren't owned by conglomerates. Again, however, these are going to be costly.
I agree that the Crest 8001 is getting pretty old and heavy for this kind of thing, and it is probably more at home in a permanent location like a studio (they do make good monitor amps).
We just did an install using a QSC PL218 and PL224 with Turbosound TQ440s. PL218 on the highs, PL224 on the lows, using a BLU-160 for active crossovers and signal processing. There is nothing not to like about such a system. Yes, the equipment is older, but it is also very, very well-engineered and was very costly when new.
Lab Gruppen has made some great stuff in the past, although from what I understand there has been some decline in quality since their acquisition by Music Group. The FP10000Q still costs a fortune these days. Convenient, sure, but not cheap.
FWIW, MC2 does have some very good four-channel power amps in the E-series and Delta series. I would prefer to buy from them, just because I like to support companies that aren't owned by conglomerates. Again, however, these are going to be costly.
I agree that the Crest 8001 is getting pretty old and heavy for this kind of thing, and it is probably more at home in a permanent location like a studio (they do make good monitor amps).
Clearly!
Also add that modern subs are designed to consume much more watts, so "oldish" 400-600 Wt/8ohm in a modern LF18X401/18TBX100/18LW1400/NDH18-4s are not good enough.
Clones at something like $700-900 based on delivery greedyness and customs taxes.
The QSC amp being discussed is rated for about 750 watts into 8 ohms. Furthermore, exactly how much power the OP really needs is not the easiest to calculate, since we don't know the size of the room and the output levels that are desired. What we do know is that the Crest Pro 7200 seems to be satisfying his requirements, and it is rated at considerably less power. This isn't surprising. There's a lot of BS and misinformation about just how much power a transducer really needs.
The OP stated that a PL380 is out of his budget. PL380s tend to be fetching about $1200 - $1500 on eBay these days. Perhaps the clones would fit into the OPs budget at $800, but I would be very hesitant to purchase one. The original amps cost a fortune for a reason, and in order to meet a ridiculous price point the clones have to cut corners. Maybe they meet it through government subsidies, but they also won't be using the same quality of parts as the original. I've seen some very scary stuff inside inexpensive clones.
Additionally, I cannot recommend people purchase equipment that is effectively stolen intellectual property, being sold by a company that would prefer to steal someone else's engineering work rather than do their own. That's just my personal opinion, and others are free to shop how they wish.
The OP stated that a PL380 is out of his budget. PL380s tend to be fetching about $1200 - $1500 on eBay these days. Perhaps the clones would fit into the OPs budget at $800, but I would be very hesitant to purchase one. The original amps cost a fortune for a reason, and in order to meet a ridiculous price point the clones have to cut corners. Maybe they meet it through government subsidies, but they also won't be using the same quality of parts as the original. I've seen some very scary stuff inside inexpensive clones.
Additionally, I cannot recommend people purchase equipment that is effectively stolen intellectual property, being sold by a company that would prefer to steal someone else's engineering work rather than do their own. That's just my personal opinion, and others are free to shop how they wish.
Clones doesn't have unnecessary for ordinary users Nomad link and mostly the same as original in terms of power supply, parts, routing, etc.
There are very much companies that was punished for greedy by "hidden market hand". Have no doubt, development doesn't cost 5x times parts for each unit.
And all if us knows how writes a raiders.
Only if you get lucky. I've seen some clones that are fine, and some that aren't. They work fine, but they lack protection circuits. I've seen enough power electronics catastrophically fail to know why it's risky. Most of these are in no way a real Lab Gruppen amplifier. They look like it on the outside, and they may even have some similarities on the inside. But there are key differences.
When big amplifiers fail, they can do a lot of damage. A 1 kW power amp without adequate protection, or using sub-standard parts can become a serious fire hazard, not to mention destroying anything connected to it. Any amplifier can and eventually will fail for some reason or another, not the least of which being cosmic rays. When it does fail, you are counting on the protection circuits to stop it from leaving a trail of destruction.
This type of amplifier is very costly to build, and if they are built anywhere close to the same as a real Lab Gruppen, then they are selling them at a loss and making all their profit through subsidies. That's really hard on the manufacturers who do the real engineering work, because they don't have the option of selling all their products at a loss. Yes, they are making a profit- they have to to stay in business because they have costs besides manufacturing. I promise you that the people at companies like MC2 aren't getting particularly rich off of this, especially right now.
Thanks H713 and BesPav, a lot of good info those clones are running good with some PA companies and a few not so good. For an $800 amp I in my position cannot take any risks as I am a small DJ company here in Tampa Bay FL. Since I have so much time off due to covid-19 I am able to concentrate on setup. I would love 2 or 3 MC2 amps but my revenue's are not that high. Its been slow since Feb. But coming back slowly. I will stick to the PL series amps used on eBay. Thanks guys!
I think the PL2 amps are probably about perfect for what you want to do. Lots of people still run these every day. They are a very good design.
You may choose to watch for a used MC2 E series, they do come up and sometimes you can get one for less than $1k. They are excellent and should use a similar topology to the MC series, albeit with a switching power supply.
I would discourage buying an MC series for what you're doing. While they do sound great, they are very heavy and most are over 20 years old now. While they are pretty reliable, they are starting to have some issues and unlike the QSC, there are no schematics available. They are another amp that is really more at home for studio monitoring these days.
You may choose to watch for a used MC2 E series, they do come up and sometimes you can get one for less than $1k. They are excellent and should use a similar topology to the MC series, albeit with a switching power supply.
I would discourage buying an MC series for what you're doing. While they do sound great, they are very heavy and most are over 20 years old now. While they are pretty reliable, they are starting to have some issues and unlike the QSC, there are no schematics available. They are another amp that is really more at home for studio monitoring these days.
You're welcome!
Please, let us know your basic setups.
I.e. how much subs and on what speakers they are based, what kind of tops, how much bands, how they do crossed, what kind of midband and HF drivers.
This will be very useful info.
No I'm not certain, I made an educated guess based on an internal picture I found so I could be wrong.
Yes I will as soon as I finish the subs taking awhile I had modified interior with battens and added metal handles and 3" casters on the bottom all housed so no leakage. Thanks again!