Re: Max
Please, surely I don't know your age or background, but I'm 66 now and have been in the electronics service business for over 45 years.
I'm certainly not sour/cynical, etc etc - you've never met me, and can only assume from online screen texts of my comments what you want to think, or as you put it, sense.
But your beliefs of such things as "the sound of different solders" is utterly rediculous and perhaps to some amusing at best.
Get a grip, stop attempting to make people believe such garbage.
There's already hoardes of those internet gods spewing misinformation, myths, self beliefs, and all sorts of mind games.
Because I, myself, don't buy into any of it, sorry., and I refuse to be "triggered" by it.
Please, surely I don't know your age or background, but I'm 66 now and have been in the electronics service business for over 45 years.
I'm certainly not sour/cynical, etc etc - you've never met me, and can only assume from online screen texts of my comments what you want to think, or as you put it, sense.
But your beliefs of such things as "the sound of different solders" is utterly rediculous and perhaps to some amusing at best.
Get a grip, stop attempting to make people believe such garbage.
There's already hoardes of those internet gods spewing misinformation, myths, self beliefs, and all sorts of mind games.
Because I, myself, don't buy into any of it, sorry., and I refuse to be "triggered" by it.
I'll solder the right channel with lead free and left channel with Pb/Sn and play with the balance control, going back and forth for ever and never get it 🙂
I've been in the hobby since my early teens. Made a career of it for 30 years. At 68 years old I can honestly tell you that I've never seen a decent lead/tin solder joint break, but I've spent a fair bit of time fixing the lead free ones.
As for differences in sound... well we all know the world is flat, the moon landings are a hoax, and 9-11 was an inside job just as surely as we know that you can tune a sound system with cables, power cords make a huge difference, speaker wire moves and different solder alloys make a sonic difference. It's just too easy to lie to ourselves.
Seriously people, y'all need to study and understand the phenomenon of "confirmation bias" and "self-deception" ... bunk is bunk, no matter where it comes from.
Differences in sounds of solder alloys is what I have found since long ago and I am not the first to say so, I will get around to quantifying
these differences sometime but I am not sure how to although I have demonstrated loopback recordings diplaying the sonic effects I speak of.
It seems maybe to do with current noise, and the same with the effect of the cigarette lighter socket device I mentioned.
I don't think there is anything magical going on, I think it is straight physics effects and to be expected.
I know this is getting off the topic of solders but on the weekend I demonstrated the car socket effect to an audio enthusiast friend, and I also demonstrated the effect of putting a sample of vinyl record inside my dac...voila, vinyl sound out of digital and different sounds according to the vinyl formulations auditioned.
We have all been told/convinced/hypnotised and examined that conductors dielectrics and directions cannot and do not have 'sound', I find this is not entirely true.
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Can this not degrade into an "immeasurable sonic differences" debate please? There's enough of those on this site. It's good to hear about peoples experience with different solder, whatever that means to them.
Amazing. Glad this turned out to be an inspiring, knowledge sharing thread.. I am a novice , not an electrical engineer . So basically sitting back and reading replies. Really appreciate the feedback.
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That's what I expressed ie my soldering experience with LF and I say that 99.3/0.7 LF works great for me, perfect joints every time but you need a powerful iron with good thermal mass and if doing for example big psu caps with big pcb planes attached you need a really big soldering iron like this 80W with manual temp control......you adjust the tip position or use a lamp dimmer.
If reworking old gear with lead solder then of course use lead solder, if constructing new gear or new cables etc or reworking ROHS gear then I strongly encourage and recommend using the SnCu LF alloy.
As a novice you are hearing different opinions and don't know who to trust.
I say use your ears, learn your ears, learn to trust your own ears and you can't go wrong provided you are experienced enough to be past the expectation bias stage.
If you are curious and motivated you could invest in a reel of the LF solder I recommend and learn how to use it and then make a pair of interconnect cables using LF solder, preferably make another same interconnect pair using lead solder and decide for yourself if there is audible difference.
$1.00 RCA plugs and cheap but decent shielded cable is all you need, cheap guitar cable is good enough and readily available.
When cutting/constructing cables always make note of and mark cable direction....cable direction is a variable to be aware of that will disable validity of AB testing, ie always be sure to be comparing exactly like with exactly like.
So RJ, perhaps you benefit from my experience, certainly you will benefit from your own experience.
Dan.
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Yes, thanks for the reminder.
Richard, cable insulation pigment/filler compounds is another variable to be aware of that will also influence AB findings, of course if you start with one cable and cut it into four equal lengths you are avoiding this uncertainty.
FYI I find white power cables can sound preferable to black or grey power cables.
If your amp runs an IEC power input cable you can easily compare IEC cables of differing insulations for yourself.
All of the above differences are individually quite subtle differences but the permutations available can combine to cause a system that always sounds great or always sounds wrong, again trust your own ears and be prepared to experiment.
Dan.
Of course I use my ears. But certain things are sort of absolute truths.
For example :earth is of spherical shape.
But in home audio "sound quality" has a huge window for charlatanry
Because not everyone is an electrical engineer.
So using knowledge of chemistry and physics can help your ears avoid fooling themselves. If you have an adcom or NAD amplifier audition and have 10 audiophiles in the room praising them and chatting around in soft cultured voices like they are higher beings , whose senses are Soo evolved and sharp that they can hear differences in wire insulation colors, most people would agree like a sheep that they are indeed hearing sounds from heaven
Basically charlatans can only go so far on forums like diyaudio. Need to back up your opinion with pretty basic laws of physics and chemistry.
But In general most audio forums are full of beautiful poetry and elaborate sales pitches of some receivers.
For example :earth is of spherical shape.
But in home audio "sound quality" has a huge window for charlatanry
Because not everyone is an electrical engineer.
So using knowledge of chemistry and physics can help your ears avoid fooling themselves. If you have an adcom or NAD amplifier audition and have 10 audiophiles in the room praising them and chatting around in soft cultured voices like they are higher beings , whose senses are Soo evolved and sharp that they can hear differences in wire insulation colors, most people would agree like a sheep that they are indeed hearing sounds from heaven
Basically charlatans can only go so far on forums like diyaudio. Need to back up your opinion with pretty basic laws of physics and chemistry.
But In general most audio forums are full of beautiful poetry and elaborate sales pitches of some receivers.
I find that I get on better with 60/40 solder from RS components - I forget the exact brand - but with a water-based flux. This saves all the hassle of using nasty flux-cleaner etc. I find that Isopropyl seems to just smear the flux after soldering. Whereas, with a water-based flux, a stiff toothbrush slightly dampened (with distilled water) gets most of the flux off.
When finished soldering the complete board, I finish off with a toothbrush dipped in distilled water with a very small amount of washing up liquid (just enough to get a few soap bubbles up), a final brush with clean distilled water and then a vacuum cleaner set on 'blow' to clean it all off. Leaves the board visibly clean as well.
Cheers
Mike
When finished soldering the complete board, I finish off with a toothbrush dipped in distilled water with a very small amount of washing up liquid (just enough to get a few soap bubbles up), a final brush with clean distilled water and then a vacuum cleaner set on 'blow' to clean it all off. Leaves the board visibly clean as well.
Cheers
Mike
I forgot to add: if i remember correctly, some manufacturers of electronic equipment have waivers about having to use lead free solder. The nuclear power industry and some computer manufacturers are two where extremely high reliability is required as the tin-whisker phenominum was known about 30 to 40 years ago.
Mike
Mike
Sadly, RS won't sell leaded solder to "individuals" any more. EU rules or something.
maybe its a UK thing then - I bought mine about 2 months ago. However, I have just noticed that it does say "Restricted to professional users". :-(
291286 | Multicore 0.7mm Wire Lead solder, +183degC Melting Point | RS Components
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Yeah they'll sell it to companies, but not individuals. I'm in NZ and it's not law here but I guess they operate out of the U.K.
Get a guitar amp and two 5m AC power extension cables, one white and one grey, plug in a guitar and compare sounds of AC the extension cables.
Go and study properties of elements and compounds and then you tell me why all insulations must sound the same.
I have given you information borne of 40 years experience servicing, constructing and auditioning audio equipment, I suggest you read again my posts.
If you want to be one of the 'sheep' then carry on believing everything you hear from the 'crowd', if you are curious then go do rigorous experimenting and form your own answers.
There is nothing wrong with your television set.
Do not attempt to adjust the picture.
We are controlling transmission.
If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume.
If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper.
We will control the horizontal.
We will control the vertical.
We can roll the image, make it flutter.
We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity.
For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear.
We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set.
You are about to participate in a great adventure.
You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to........
......... The Outer Limits!
Do not attempt to adjust the picture.
We are controlling transmission.
If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume.
If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper.
We will control the horizontal.
We will control the vertical.
We can roll the image, make it flutter.
We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity.
For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear.
We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set.
You are about to participate in a great adventure.
You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to........
......... The Outer Limits!
I'm reminded of Monster cable. My listening tests reveal that the transparent insulation yields greater clarity of sound. Further, the lens effect not only makes the conductors appear larger but also expands the sound stage.
My tongue is so firmly planted in cheek that they both hurt.
My tongue is so firmly planted in cheek that they both hurt.