Your concept is far different than anything which has been done before (successfully, commercially) ... This does not mean it is impossible. It does mean that there is very little existing knowledge which you can draw upon. This project will require you to do extensive research in psychoacoustics, and some electronics development work. The actual speakers will probably be fairly simple, small, wide-band drivers. So if you do not get much help on this site, it is not because people are not helpful... You are trying to do something no one has really done before...
With enough processing, and over a limited set of distances and angles, you might be able to generate a limited set of interesting effects. Whether this will create something a normal listener would judge as immersive is hard to predict.
As hifijim said above, as far as I know what you are trying to do is not something that has an off-the-shelf solution someone has implemented already. I would certainly start with whatever virtual surround processing you can find in standard software though, and/or do basic things like feeding in phase inversions, echoes, delays, etc. I would expect a lot of trial and error to get something that functions well over a decent range. Getting interesting effects over limited geometry and frequency ranges will likely be far easier. But I can't predict how hard it will be or how realistic your expectations might be.
yes, I understand the difficulty very well but I strongly believe that it is possible, as in the example I gave of my television. I believe that the key is first of all in the distance between the loudspeakers and the listener and in this case we are talking about less than half a meter, therefore di can start talking about the fresnel effect, then thinking about it, another example that comes to mind is the passage of an airplane at high altitude, in fact we are unable to locate the airplane until after seeing it in the sky, and this makes me believe that the reverberation in the big sky and above all the great amplitude of the sound waves can make localization difficult. in fact, an infrasonic wave has a very wide wavefront so I can also create 60Hz waves with a subwoofer, what do you think?
yes, I understand the difficulty very well but I strongly believe that it is possible, as in the example I gave of my television. I believe that the key is first of all in the distance between the loudspeakers and the listener and in this case we are talking about less than half a meter, therefore di can start talking about the fresnel effect, then thinking about it, another example that comes to mind is the passage of an airplane at high altitude, in fact we are unable to locate the airplane until after seeing it in the sky, and this makes me believe that the reverberation in the big sky and above all the great amplitude of the sound waves can make localization difficult. in fact, an infrasonic wave has a very wide wavefront so I can also create 60Hz waves with a subwoofer, what do you think?
I believe this way of making it difficult to locate the source of the noise, is possible even with very high pitched sounds such as an alarm going off, I have found myself on many occasions, having an alarm, and would never have found the source unless knew where it was
I believe this way of making it difficult to locate the source of the noise, is possible even with very high pitched sounds such as an alarm going off, I have found myself on many occasions, having an alarm, and would never have found the source unless knew where it was
I think this example is less relevant. With a plane, you are dealing with a source at a great distance, where reflected energy is of comparable intensity to the direct sound (or perhaps reflected energy is greater in aggregate). The reflected energy is also very diffuse, leading to greater localization difficulty. Depending on atmospheric conditions, refraction can also heavily influence the sound path.
With speakers that are close to a listener in open space, the direct sound, intensity, and relative delay between speakers will typically dominate the directional cues if something isn't used to mask them. Reflected energy is typically going to be much lower in intensity in this scenario and is delayed more as a percentage of time of flight, potentially giving it less weight.
There are multiple hearing mechanisms at play in localization. Each one can dominate if it is strong enough compared to the others.
Lower frequencies do tend to be less dominant when it comes to directional cues, but whether that helps your situation is hard to say. It's going to depend on the source material and what processing you are doing.
The last time i went out and there was a person on a bike playing music through some sort of speakers system, EVERYONE told him to 'go away'.
Some even suggested that they would help him reposition his system to his own bodily internals.
he has not been seen or heard from again.
i think your idea is flawed in several ways.
IF people wish to listen to music, they can use headphones to enjoy exactly what they want to listen too without offending others.
your comment about your tv speakers and other comments suggest to me that you have no idea about phasing and the Psychoacoustics of the human ear and the brains interpretation of sounds.
i think you need to go and do a lot more research and study to better understand what it is you think you want to achieve.
Some even suggested that they would help him reposition his system to his own bodily internals.
he has not been seen or heard from again.
i think your idea is flawed in several ways.
IF people wish to listen to music, they can use headphones to enjoy exactly what they want to listen too without offending others.
your comment about your tv speakers and other comments suggest to me that you have no idea about phasing and the Psychoacoustics of the human ear and the brains interpretation of sounds.
i think you need to go and do a lot more research and study to better understand what it is you think you want to achieve.
I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. My examples come from past experiences and I know that the more a signal has a low frequency the more difficult it will be to locate, I will study your arguments about phasing and more, but do you think what I want to do is feasible for me? also using many expedients and your reflections
I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. My examples come from past experiences and I know that the more a signal has a low frequency the more difficult it will be to locate, I will study your arguments about phasing and more, but do you think what I want to do is feasible for me? also using many expedients and your reflections
Realistically, I think it's going to be difficult from a few different angles.
You're asking the processing to overcome a lot of suboptimal conditions. This will likely limit how convincing the phantom images will be, the area over which they function, and how far you can shift the image away from the speaker locations (other than for things like front-back confusion with perfect geometry, etc.).
I don't think psychoacoustics is a field where you're likely to get very lucky without a lot of work. With limited knowledge of the field, you're likely facing a lot of learning to achieve something that's impressive.
People learn complicated things every day though. If you have a lot of drive and desire to make it work, the project still might teach you a great deal even if it's unsuccessful.
But if you're looking for something quick and easy, I don't think this project is as likely to amuse you.
Yes maybe I asked something impossible or very difficult with this thread. However I will try to create something decent, so in your opinion, that you are much more expert than me, in addition to creating ghost images, what and what topics should I focus on in order to have an appreciable result???? Give me some advice
I would actually rate my knowledge of this field as quite limited. Most of it was picked up secondarily from normal speaker projects and a general interest in audio.
As basic advice, I would suggest investigating all of the hearing mechanisms involved in localization, the different Dolby surround methods, current virtual surround sound methods (you will probably need to read patents on this topic to get details), threads related to producing a stereo image with a single speaker, etc.
If you have minimal knowledge of acoustics in general, The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest gives a decent overview in an accessible way. It won't directly help you with the project details, but it may give you a firmer foundation to build on.
As basic advice, I would suggest investigating all of the hearing mechanisms involved in localization, the different Dolby surround methods, current virtual surround sound methods (you will probably need to read patents on this topic to get details), threads related to producing a stereo image with a single speaker, etc.
If you have minimal knowledge of acoustics in general, The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest gives a decent overview in an accessible way. It won't directly help you with the project details, but it may give you a firmer foundation to build on.