hello!
I'm looking for a new amp to power my PA subwoofers. they are loaded with 8x PD.185C003, each with an A.E.S rating of 1500W. they can either be hooked up as 1 channel with 4Ohms or 2 channels with 8 Ohms each, or 4 channels with 4Ohms each. its intended for outdoor festivals, so the more power the better 🙂 any suggestions? im tempted to try a cheap chinese lab clone (sinbosen), but thats probably a bad idea....
cheers, lisette
I'm looking for a new amp to power my PA subwoofers. they are loaded with 8x PD.185C003, each with an A.E.S rating of 1500W. they can either be hooked up as 1 channel with 4Ohms or 2 channels with 8 Ohms each, or 4 channels with 4Ohms each. its intended for outdoor festivals, so the more power the better 🙂 any suggestions? im tempted to try a cheap chinese lab clone (sinbosen), but thats probably a bad idea....
cheers, lisette
Ideally 2 amps in case one goes down. Better still: run the subs using 2 amps and have a 3rd on standby that you can swap in and still have half the subs running during that down time. There is nothing worse than thinking it will be OK then losing all bass with no back up.
What's your budget?
What's your budget?
I would always have a backup amp in the rack. Proline3000 should have decent 2nd hand value so it might be worthwhile selling it and getting a lighter weight amp. We have been using two of the Gisen K21x4 amp on subs without issues so far.
I would get whatever´s needed to feed 1500W into each 4 ohm pair,so 2 stereo amps in total
Loud and reliable.
Loud and reliable.
He would need 4 of those to effectively drive all 8 subs, since it would require running one unit in bridged mode per pair to get the most out of the drivers.
Yes, I misread the post. Each 8 ohm channel would be 6000W - these amplifiers will only drive 3600W in bridged mode.
OTOH, nobody has stated RMS or PMPO.
OTOH, nobody has stated RMS or PMPO.
The Gisen numbers are quasi long term RMS (can hold up at least 4 seconds). The K30 amplifier (lower power version of K42) achieved its ratings also: https://forum.speakerplans.com/k30-amplifier-on-the-bench_topic106291.html
The drivers are rated for 6000W peaks which I don't think any of the amps will do into 8 ohms. Obviously if you get near these power levels you need good limiting and there is diminishing return due to voice coil heating, excursion limits been reached and air flow losses in cabinets.
The drivers are rated for 6000W peaks which I don't think any of the amps will do into 8 ohms. Obviously if you get near these power levels you need good limiting and there is diminishing return due to voice coil heating, excursion limits been reached and air flow losses in cabinets.
I said RELIABLE.
After 51 years involvement in Live Sound, Thousands of shows, hundreds of them in Wolds Cup Soccer Stadiums (think 45000 to 60000 people capacity), open air ones in the middle of the Andes Mountains, internationally touring with Groups, I have learnt to take the brochure specs with a grain of salt and/or derate accordingly.
Welcome to the "new normal"
AES and EIA long ago bowed to cheap importer/merchant pressure and relaxed specs into meaninglessness.
Among other things, amplifiers are allowed to turn off (in self protection) as many times and as for as long as they wish, so if it takes 42 days to complete 1 hour actual work, so be it.
It´s ludicrous that "serious", definitely expensive PA amps are allowed to quote 6 to 8 kW while brochure states they can do that for SECONDS, and continuous power is around 2kW RMS.
Might be "acceptable" (not really, not even there) at Home Hi Fi or Home Theater use, not at all in Live PA Sound.
Limiters GUARANTEE amp is putting out 99% of power continuously, precisely they kill any dynamics which might be left over.
To boot they are not full range (which would force some dynamics capability) but just lowest end.
You stick your head in a woofer cabinet (which I have done many tomes searching for some speaker problem or cabinet rattle), and you hear continuous indistinct rumble.
You want your speakers to survive a 10 to 30 date Tour or a full weekend 30 band ordeal?
DERATE!!!!!
It's much better to have an amplifier that can do 16kW burst with 2kW long term average than an amplifier than can do 1-2kW continuous (the old days). This burst capability corresponds to 9dB crest factor which would a reasonable assumption for bass heavy music. The result will be that the 16kW burst amplifier will be perceived as twice as loud (or even more if running sub bass). Furthermore the actual long term capability of that amplifier into a real subwoofer load will be better than a resistive load due the impedance magnitude of a subs peaks and also the reactive power delivered to the sub been returned to the supply rails in a class D amplifier. A modern amplifier will do all this while weighing 1/3rd of the old and taking up less rack space. If it was desirable for it to have true continuous output into a restive load the power supply would have to be much larger (volume of transformer cores) and the heatsinking would also be much larger. There are however some amps which take this philosophy too far for subwoofer usage like the Powersoft X4 which if you look at the review in production partner turns into a hot few hundred watt mess if asked to run subs on all 4 channels (not its intended usage).
Hi-Fi amps can have continuous power ratings easily because they are just much less powerful and so the additional cost and volume required to support that capability is small and avoids the need for monitoring a limiting systems in the amplifier to prevent failure.
I've never done 60,000 person gigs but protective limiters engaging is indicative to me that the system is not capable enough or it's too loud.
Hi-Fi amps can have continuous power ratings easily because they are just much less powerful and so the additional cost and volume required to support that capability is small and avoids the need for monitoring a limiting systems in the amplifier to prevent failure.
I've never done 60,000 person gigs but protective limiters engaging is indicative to me that the system is not capable enough or it's too loud.
It's much better to have an amplifier that can do 16kW continuous than 2kW... 😀
For the OP's speakers, I would aim for two 8R channels of 10kW power output each. ~35kW input from the wall at full blast if using class AB, but it will work and last a long time at full blast 🙂
For the OP's speakers, I would aim for two 8R channels of 10kW power output each. ~35kW input from the wall at full blast if using class AB, but it will work and last a long time at full blast 🙂
https://aetechron.com/ if you want continous capability (which I would question if would be used for a music system) its expensive and takes more space/weight than an audio amp. The most powerful class AB amps I am aware of are around 1kW with class G/H variants up to ~ 5KW.
THE problem is how long the burst rating is. Two seconds is one thing, ten milliseconds is quite another in terms of how LOUD it will actually play. Even the old school iron horses that DO run class H were more properly characterized as X watts burst, and X/8 or X/3 ”continuous”, but the burst could be sustained for 30 seconds to several minutes. That got shorter and shorter and shorter with switch mode supplies because you just can’t get enough thermal mass there anymore, and IGBTs can’t take being “overloaded“ for more than a few cycles at the 100 or so kHz switching frequency. Up size the power supply so it can run 5 second burst at full clip into 2 ohms and you price yourself out of the market. Might even have problems getting safety certs because it would “require” 125 amp service (Yes, that’s what an old PL9.0 would draw - it’s in the ratings table). And add 5 or 10 pounds to a 20 pound amplifier. I’d take a 25 pound amp that could do the deed - but certainly wouldn’t pay $40,000 for it. My “design” skills stop well short of that kind of power level when it comes to switching converters, so building my own isn’t an option (or it would have been done long ago).
If I was to design something that would output 10kW, It would be gigantic and heavy because it would use transmitting tubes. It would probably need a 4kV supply, too. And water cooling. Realistically, I'd build a system using many 100W amplifiers and speakers instead of trying to do it all with two/four. I'd also use the most efficient speakers I could find to reduce the power requirements.
The problem with 10 kW amplifiers is that no one can eat just one. Usually they are used in big systems with a dozen or more of them. You can’t build/buy/transport enough 100 watt amplifiers to power a modern stadium size system (even if you get them down to 1U). Even casual users tend to have more than one amplifier, if for no other reason than redundancy. One quits, only some of it goes out. And 100 watts might be good for a single 1” compression driver or a single near field monitor, but not much more.