Yes, RS100-8 is a nice sounding driver. I like the Peerless P830986, also aluminum cone but TS parameters work well in standard Tabaq dimensions.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-119.html#post4556798
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-119.html#post4556798
This is an interesting discussion: Is there a 3in driver that will give more bass than the 3fe22, or a 4in driver (definitely more bass, slightly bigger box), but that costs the same or less than the 3fe22. My stated aim is a low cost pair of speakers that I can mass produce for friends, that will be a significant improvement over ~£100-£150 hifis. Most of the people I am thinking of listen to a lot of classical, folk, country and not so much rock or pop that would need the deep bass, but it would be nice to be able to really hear a double bass the way it sounds in real life. What frequency do I need them to extend to at the bottom to get this?
As a bonus, it would be nice if the speakers could be driven by a small hifi, some of which have some not bad amp chips in them, fairly low distortion at low power levels. This is where the 3fe22 wins - it has amazing sensitivity.
I think I might just go away and make myself a comparison spreadsheet, Don't worry, I will still build the speakers I started this thread for!
Anyone have any more suggestions for a driver along these lines?
As a bonus, it would be nice if the speakers could be driven by a small hifi, some of which have some not bad amp chips in them, fairly low distortion at low power levels. This is where the 3fe22 wins - it has amazing sensitivity.
I think I might just go away and make myself a comparison spreadsheet, Don't worry, I will still build the speakers I started this thread for!
Anyone have any more suggestions for a driver along these lines?
At the other end from the 3FE22 is the Aura NS3, Dayton ND90. 4+ of XMAX and a dark tone lacking a few highs and very much less sensitive.
Some interwebing discovered lowest note on double bass is 41hz. To get reliably into the 40-50hz range I think you'll need to add woofers or a subwoofer. In that respect, the Tabaq becomes the woofer enclosure, with an internal mini-enclosure for the FR driver. The resulting "bigger Tabaq" or "Tabaqsimus"
would be rather imposing.re: low-cost Tabaqsimus/WAW ($45 driver budget)
any thoughts on a 6" peerless BC18WK05-08 in Tabaq alignment + 3fe25 sealed, just above it (drivers touching or overlapping front- and rear-mounts)?
-1st order xover anywhere from 300-1k hz, plus something to tame SPL rise 3-12k?
if you need the rest of the top octave, add nd20fa-6 as supertweet or flooder?
($60 driver total)
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1436--tymphany-bc18wk05-08-spec-sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1104-faitalpro-3fe25-8-specifications.pdf
any thoughts on a 6" peerless BC18WK05-08 in Tabaq alignment + 3fe25 sealed, just above it (drivers touching or overlapping front- and rear-mounts)?
-1st order xover anywhere from 300-1k hz, plus something to tame SPL rise 3-12k?
if you need the rest of the top octave, add nd20fa-6 as supertweet or flooder?
($60 driver total)
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1436--tymphany-bc18wk05-08-spec-sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1104-faitalpro-3fe25-8-specifications.pdf
Hi Luigiman,
Being a big fan of the 3fe22, I would say that among the 3" category, it probably has the worst Xmax and bass performance of them all. It's real Xmax is only 0.5mm based on traditional method of calculations. The only reason it is listed as 1.5mm is because they added in another 1/3 of coil length. Not wrong, just less common.
Where the 3fe22 excels is really in the, upper bass, mids and highs. It really has a treble that will give some dome tweeters a run for the money.
Bass performance and sensitivity is on opposite end of each other. To understand the basic issue. It has to do with choice you make when you are winding the coil. If you wanted high sensitivity, you need to have a really powerful motor and light cone. The coils are wound very tightly and short so that as much coil as possible is immersed in the magnetic field. If you wanted bass handling, you have to wind the coil as long as possible so the coil stays in the magnetic field even when there is plenty of excursion. That means at any given time there is less coil in the magnetic field. But if you ask me, I think there is a compromise in midrange clarity as well.
The 3fe22 is a 3" driver but the motor is as strong as many 6" out there.
So it really depends on what you value more.
Tangband, peerless and Dayton have good 3" driver that may be more appropriate.
Oon
Being a big fan of the 3fe22, I would say that among the 3" category, it probably has the worst Xmax and bass performance of them all. It's real Xmax is only 0.5mm based on traditional method of calculations. The only reason it is listed as 1.5mm is because they added in another 1/3 of coil length. Not wrong, just less common.
Where the 3fe22 excels is really in the, upper bass, mids and highs. It really has a treble that will give some dome tweeters a run for the money.
Bass performance and sensitivity is on opposite end of each other. To understand the basic issue. It has to do with choice you make when you are winding the coil. If you wanted high sensitivity, you need to have a really powerful motor and light cone. The coils are wound very tightly and short so that as much coil as possible is immersed in the magnetic field. If you wanted bass handling, you have to wind the coil as long as possible so the coil stays in the magnetic field even when there is plenty of excursion. That means at any given time there is less coil in the magnetic field. But if you ask me, I think there is a compromise in midrange clarity as well.
The 3fe22 is a 3" driver but the motor is as strong as many 6" out there.
So it really depends on what you value more.
Tangband, peerless and Dayton have good 3" driver that may be more appropriate.
Oon
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Thanks to everyone who is giving advice.
I have built the speakers and I am quite happy with them, I will post some pics and more description later.
To those who recommended adding a woofer, I will say that I probably won't go that route, I am trying to keep both cost and build complexity down, and I have basically made one full range driver in a TL enclosure a parameter for this particular project, one day I will work on a pair of speakers just for my place, and then they might get fancier...
I am still interested to see if I can find a driver that might give me a bit more bass. I did a little comparison, attached, with some of the drivers that were suggested, and other ones I found. I am intrigued by the Dayton Audio PC83-8, seems to have pretty good low end response for a three inch. Would it give me audibly more bass?
I have built the speakers and I am quite happy with them, I will post some pics and more description later.
To those who recommended adding a woofer, I will say that I probably won't go that route, I am trying to keep both cost and build complexity down, and I have basically made one full range driver in a TL enclosure a parameter for this particular project, one day I will work on a pair of speakers just for my place, and then they might get fancier...
I am still interested to see if I can find a driver that might give me a bit more bass. I did a little comparison, attached, with some of the drivers that were suggested, and other ones I found. I am intrigued by the Dayton Audio PC83-8, seems to have pretty good low end response for a three inch. Would it give me audibly more bass?
Attachments
Re-attached driver comparison with a couple more options added. The Dynavox 3in is interesting, but the PC83-8 is more available to me in the UK, and cheaper. What about the DSA90-8, it is spec'ed to only go to 15000, but checking on Online Tone Generator - Free, Simple and Easy to Use. I can barely hear 15000. Will it have significantly worse highs compared to a 3FE22?
Could the PC83-8 just drop in to my current box design, or would it need tweaking? Bjorn Johannesen simmed this box for me in the MJK worksheets, is there someone who can sim it for me? I will put it in Leonard Audio, but I was never happy how different LA was from the MJK sims, and I trust MJK more...
Could the PC83-8 just drop in to my current box design, or would it need tweaking? Bjorn Johannesen simmed this box for me in the MJK worksheets, is there someone who can sim it for me? I will put it in Leonard Audio, but I was never happy how different LA was from the MJK sims, and I trust MJK more...
Attachments
OK, I'll get a pair and give them a try.
I was hoping I could tweak the box a bit to get some more low end, though. Bjorn said he tuned it to 75Hz, the lowest he could get out of the FaitalPros. (Annoyingly, I couldn't get Leonard Audio to show this, the plots from there looked nothing like his MJK plots) With this driver having an Fs almost 30Hz lower, you should be able to tune it down a bit, right? What can I change to make it go a bit lower? The line length? What about the port length? Am I right in assuming the cross sectional area of line and port should probably stay the same?
Maybe I'll have to PM Bjorn and see if he would kindly do another sim.
I was hoping I could tweak the box a bit to get some more low end, though. Bjorn said he tuned it to 75Hz, the lowest he could get out of the FaitalPros. (Annoyingly, I couldn't get Leonard Audio to show this, the plots from there looked nothing like his MJK plots) With this driver having an Fs almost 30Hz lower, you should be able to tune it down a bit, right? What can I change to make it go a bit lower? The line length? What about the port length? Am I right in assuming the cross sectional area of line and port should probably stay the same?
Maybe I'll have to PM Bjorn and see if he would kindly do another sim.
Thanks, Xrk, I'll play around with it. Bjorn has recommended the original TABAQ enclosure for the PC83-4, so I might start with that.
Since you seem to be something of an expert on the mini karlsonator, would this driver sound good in a 0.47 or 0.53x? Which would be better. I would stick to one driver, so as I understand it that would mean the 0.47, right? WOuld this give more low end than the TABAQ, or about the same?
It looks to me as though I could get an even smaller enclosure by using the mini k.
Since you seem to be something of an expert on the mini karlsonator, would this driver sound good in a 0.47 or 0.53x? Which would be better. I would stick to one driver, so as I understand it that would mean the 0.47, right? WOuld this give more low end than the TABAQ, or about the same?
It looks to me as though I could get an even smaller enclosure by using the mini k.
Here are some pics of the finished test build. I haven't got all the stuffing I need yet, but they already sound great. Very clear and honest highs and mids, and surprising bass considering the relatively high Fs. I will also try a test build of the original TABAQ dimensions with the Dayton Audio PC83-4 driver, that should get me from 75Hz down to 55Hz at the bottom end, and see which one I like better.
I will probably stick with the TABAQ design, because it sounds so good, and is very easy to build. I will be able to CNC the sides, and then anyone can cut the baffles and glue it up. I'll have to do a little more work on how to make the boxes look good, and add some terminals in the back and cloth for the front to protect the drivers from little fingers (it seems that kids find it irresistible to press in the dust cap!), but that should be easy. My next step will be finding a good, low cost class D amp board and power supply, and a USB DAC with remote, to make a complete little system.
I will probably stick with the TABAQ design, because it sounds so good, and is very easy to build. I will be able to CNC the sides, and then anyone can cut the baffles and glue it up. I'll have to do a little more work on how to make the boxes look good, and add some terminals in the back and cloth for the front to protect the drivers from little fingers (it seems that kids find it irresistible to press in the dust cap!), but that should be easy. My next step will be finding a good, low cost class D amp board and power supply, and a USB DAC with remote, to make a complete little system.
Attachments
BTW, i just remembered about a review of a
Speaker you might find jnteresting. So you are not off target in what you are trying to achieve.
6moons audioreviews: Finale Vivace Mini
Finale Audio’s Vivace Minis: Hearing is Believing | Wall of Sound | Audio and Music Reviews
Oon
Speaker you might find jnteresting. So you are not off target in what you are trying to achieve.
6moons audioreviews: Finale Vivace Mini
Finale Audio’s Vivace Minis: Hearing is Believing | Wall of Sound | Audio and Music Reviews
Oon
A friend of mine, Golden Whale on this forum, did make a set of sort of hybrid boxes once, rear ported horns with a bass reflex port straight from the coupling chamber to the horn mouth, I think it was a Fostex design, but don't quote me...
These Finales look nice, though my folded version of the TABAQ is smaller. Makes me wish I had $3000 to spare...
These Finales look nice, though my folded version of the TABAQ is smaller. Makes me wish I had $3000 to spare...
Rereading it i just realised it was the other way around. From sixmoons
"The transducer couples directly to the enclosure air which comprises two Helmholtz chambers connected via a truncated folded horn, the second chamber being also open to the outside via a tuned port."
It should be a BLH feeding into a bassreflex...
Oon
"The transducer couples directly to the enclosure air which comprises two Helmholtz chambers connected via a truncated folded horn, the second chamber being also open to the outside via a tuned port."
It should be a BLH feeding into a bassreflex...
Oon