Thanks Scott, yes I was using Jantzen Z caps as well at that time. They are definitely not bad at all. Doing this copper cap upgrade is not a cheap option and everybody has to make their own decisions and the time to make them. I am lucky to have one of each (and a thank you to Andrew, who I am sure is reading this) and a great opportunity, and will report. In time we may get confirmation from others.
Just a quick note, the Duelund vs Miflex listening continues. I now have the Miflex in the NBAC Elsinores and very pleased with the result. It has the advantage of being the more compact of the two and being able to just fit on the black PCB. It is rated at 250V DC and that helps to make them more compact when compared to 600V for the Duelund.
Whilst both are copper, the Duelund are 'tinned' and that is also an expensive because it is 24 Pounds more expensive that the non-tinned which are also 600V and 62mm x 62mm. The Miflex is 70mm x 40mm diameter and looks smaller. For my purposes the Miflex shines, less costly too and right size. Both sound great.
I will listen to the Miflex a bit more before putting the Duelund back in. I should be able to be more specific about the differences then.
Whilst both are copper, the Duelund are 'tinned' and that is also an expensive because it is 24 Pounds more expensive that the non-tinned which are also 600V and 62mm x 62mm. The Miflex is 70mm x 40mm diameter and looks smaller. For my purposes the Miflex shines, less costly too and right size. Both sound great.
I will listen to the Miflex a bit more before putting the Duelund back in. I should be able to be more specific about the differences then.
Thanks, appreciate that. Yes, I was thinking about bypass capacitors as well. I saw the Duelund JDM-100-AG-010: 0.01uF 100Vdc Duelund JDM Pure Silver Foil Capacitor are £32.17 each for 100V (the 600V are £42 each) and that's a premium. Is this the one that you were referring to? But the Miflex on its own is so good satisfying musically, the tinned Duelund probably got that extra sense of speed, but is that just an impression of speed. I say this because the Miflex is not slow. In a few days I will put them back in.
What is the general story about copper, tinned copper and pure silver etc? What are people saying? And why is tinning copper supposed to be better? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
What is the general story about copper, tinned copper and pure silver etc? What are people saying? And why is tinning copper supposed to be better? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Joe,
Yes, I use the 600V version for tube amps, I imagine the 100V version should have similar benefits. The bypass caps will give you the speed of the Duelunds in the Miflex caps, icing on the cake. I rather expect they would do similar things for the TCM caps, and I have been debating just bypassing those with the Duelunds instead of purchasing another expensive pair of 1.8uF crossover caps. You might want to try that as well.
David
Yes, I use the 600V version for tube amps, I imagine the 100V version should have similar benefits. The bypass caps will give you the speed of the Duelunds in the Miflex caps, icing on the cake. I rather expect they would do similar things for the TCM caps, and I have been debating just bypassing those with the Duelunds instead of purchasing another expensive pair of 1.8uF crossover caps. You might want to try that as well.
David
I see, but I have my doubts that bypassing the 1.8uF TCM with 0.01uF would be as transformative to what I am hearing now. I can see 0.01uF make a difference in tube amps as the terminating impedance is so much higher (no kidding) compared to a Tweeter. I think I might have some vintage non-inductive 100V polystyrenes of similar value (very hard to get), might be interesting to try bypassing the TCMs in a friend's pair of Elsinores not too far from here - give them to him to wire in. If they can change the sound, then so be it and then I would believe it. You might be right.
Joe,
That is a good point regarding the terminating impedance, we are talking about 2MHz corner frequency into 8 ohms vs 160 Hz into 100K. I think healthy scepticism is justified. I have some CDE 942 series 0.01uF/2kV caps that I can try across the 1.8uF Jantzen Silver Z-caps on my MFD Elsinores, just to see if that changes the sound. For what is is worth, in the capacitor tests at Humble Homemade hifi, the author does feel bypassing with a 0.01uF cap does improve the sound of crossover caps...and from what I can tell the improvement maybe somewhat irespective of the actual bypass cap used. So trying with a less expensive quality bypass may provide the same relative improvement as a more expensive alternative.
David
That is a good point regarding the terminating impedance, we are talking about 2MHz corner frequency into 8 ohms vs 160 Hz into 100K. I think healthy scepticism is justified. I have some CDE 942 series 0.01uF/2kV caps that I can try across the 1.8uF Jantzen Silver Z-caps on my MFD Elsinores, just to see if that changes the sound. For what is is worth, in the capacitor tests at Humble Homemade hifi, the author does feel bypassing with a 0.01uF cap does improve the sound of crossover caps...and from what I can tell the improvement maybe somewhat irespective of the actual bypass cap used. So trying with a less expensive quality bypass may provide the same relative improvement as a more expensive alternative.
David
Just in, levelUP is doing some research on Duelund capacitors - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/duelund-silver-foil-capacitor-autopsy.413704/
Hey Joe - I'm assuming this current capacitor conversation applies to the ULD Elsinores as well then? I'm currently using the suggested True copper max caps.
I also assume we're still waiting on details regarding the upcoming purify tweeter specs regarding whether or not a ULD tweeter upgrade might be possible as well..
I also assume we're still waiting on details regarding the upcoming purify tweeter specs regarding whether or not a ULD tweeter upgrade might be possible as well..
Haven't seen anything yet, been patiently looking and nothing has turned up. If it was sent via vacuumstate.com email, that is no longer active. Use joeras@customanalogue.com or resend?
Pretty much yes to everything you say.
I think it applies to all versions of Elsinore Mk-6. It has me baffled somewhat and wondering if others will be hearing the difference I am hearing. So far Henning has done it with Duelund and clearly heard it, and this was with his ULD version. To me clearly the JDM tinned Duelunds and the Miflex are significantly better than the TCM in ways I had not suspected. But this is currently in a system with very high (and musical) resolution. So are there other variables involved? At some stage we shall hear what it does to the MFC, that would likely be with Miflex as it is a bit cheaper and more practical IMO.
Right now I cannot separate the Miflex from the Duelund, they are subtly different and they both sound great. The Miflex can be used with the current PCB and I am happy with that. I have ordered another pair and they will likely end up in a pair of ULD here.
In the meantime, my apologies for recommending the TCM. I am not the only one to highly recommend it. But I have two other caps here, that in the context of the system I have here, brings out things in the music that the TCM only suggests and the other two render more fully. In particular, not just tonal, but in particular the way that the 'air' of the recording comes out, separating instruments, and it makes for more enjoyable listening.
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Thanks. I just looked at the date we recorded it, December 2019, four and a half years ago. Of course, Beau has progressed since then.
Joe,
Thanks for your evaluation of the Miflex and Duelund caps. I know both will get better as they break in. I think I am going to spring for the Miflex and save the TCM for another project. With its’ 600V rating, it is perfectly suited as a coupling cap where using a Duelund bypass cap would be more effective in bring out better sound.
David
Thanks for your evaluation of the Miflex and Duelund caps. I know both will get better as they break in. I think I am going to spring for the Miflex and save the TCM for another project. With its’ 600V rating, it is perfectly suited as a coupling cap where using a Duelund bypass cap would be more effective in bring out better sound.
David