The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)

Lucky for us that's quite a list. :)
Do you have any others who's work you prefer? I mentioned Steve Hoffman because all of his work I've heard sounds stellar. But I couldn't make a list full of people like him.

I do look at discogs quite often to find more mixes of a recording engineer I like. It doesn't always work out though.

Not at all my genre but I noticed most mixes that involve Serban Ghenea seem to image at least above average. Lot's of hits there too.
The imaging sometimes makes the genre tolerable. :D
 
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Wesayso, I can't follow your threads anymore, your avatar is creaping me out.....

I could change it, just to keep you happy.. :)
Would this one do?

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Maybe I can explain my Avatar choice. At the time David Lee Roth did his rendition of "California Girls" I was floored by that video. Being a young kid I could not get enough of that clip. I decided to decorate my room with the theme... all drawn using a HB pencil and some color pencils, here's my interpretation of it:
DavidLeeRoth-a.jpg


Too bad there aren't any pictures of the ceiling I did in that room! :cheers:
 
Today I had a little fun with the new shuffler, based on (half) the Choueiri IR.
More info in the Phantom Center thread about the technical features of it.

I was pretty pleased what it did for me, but need way more time to properly listen/analyze what it does. The working part is very similar to the phase shuffler, with the exception that this one does the same on/to both channels.

It is designed to fight the same problem, the cross talk dips inherent in Stereo listening. If there's interest in the subject I'm willing to go a bit deeper into the subject, just say so, on here or the other thread. :)
 
The trouble with testing any variations of the shuffler with music is that the way the music was recorded and mixed is unknown, and probably full of its own shortcomings, variables and/or randomness, when it comes to imaging.

I've been getting into recording bands lately, and I see first hand the amount of compromises that are made, which would affect imaging. You put mics where you can, rather than where would be technically better, venue acoustics are a big issue, mixing with pan controls is only mostly proper above 1kHZ, and everything we've been taught was based on a single mic, rather than two ears... The perfect way to adjust a playback system may only work with a certain variation of recording and mixing technique.

On another diyaudio thread, they compared about 10 different midrange drivers, trying to decide which one was the best, all about 3 inch, and they used music (such as Barracuda by Heart) to judge them and rate them in blind listening tests. They eventually did a bunch of more sophisticated tests, FR, impulse, there may have been some waterfall graph, distortion at a certain level... You reach a point where things are very good enough, and find that to go beyond that is very difficult. And all these tests are based on a single calibrated mic rather than two ears.

Making things better than today's state-of-the-art is not easy. Sorry if I'm being a downer here. I still think using inter-aural cancellation with an L-XR stereo matrix for L & R, and a center L+R speaker is maybe as good as it's going to get. I've been living with an actively steered version of that while building my passively steered version, and it's pretty good except for when the active steering does something weird or makes the center image seem too confined (too narrow).
 
It would be very hard to guess what I'm hearing I suppose. But I do believe in Stereo being quite capable in presenting a convincing stereo image to the listener in the sweet spot. I'm not that convinced a dedicated center can do a better job on true stereo material. It would largely depend on the algorithm that makes up the center signal.

I wish I could let you hear what I've got. But that would require at least a dummy head to record it. Even better a visit in person.

The amount of work I've spent on getting both FR and phase as linear as I could, some of it in old fashioned damping and other parts of it solved digitally, really all helps to put this step together. Combine that with a response starting at ~17 Hz to ~18000 Hz.

The imaging, as I have said before, is above average already without any help from extra shufflers. But what the shuffler does give the listener in the sweet spot is a more real 3D image.

Believe me this stuff works. Without it I got this review:
Jan Fekkes said:
Hi Ronald. Here is my report


I will make apologies in advance for my English but I give it my best shot!

----He explained it all to me. The whole building process of his now grownup 7 ft twins. It is impressive, the way they gaze at me with each holding a long row of little speakers. I do not understand and comprehend everything Ronald told me about his project in a very enthusiastic way but I feel a lot of respect and admiration. Blood sweat and tears were shed to accomplish what is standing in front of me. “This is it, they produce sound and I think I did a good job” Well,….. a good job is a big understatement…because I have listened and they certainly produce sound. To call it just sound is way too simple to describe what is entering your ears. Tone colors is a better way to put it. Any color you like is there. Anyway, I was asked to give my honest and frank opinion about his tall and rank self-built stereo speaker set.

So, how do I do that? I asked myself. I don’t want it to become a lyrical piece of prose so people will doubt my honesty…..but I am lyrical. And that is because I am a critical listener, picking up details and can feel music to the bone. But anyway…at this my findings, while having a coffee on the ‘hotspot’ at Ronalds place.


Opeth, Windowpane from the album Damnation. I immediately feel like I’m on very right spot in the concert hall. The ultimate place to be, everybody is always looking for, I am experiencing now. Every instrument is clearly in place and it is very extraordinary, I can almost feel the space in between. It is a wide sound with room for everything that is going on. There is prominent clarity but the bass and deeper tones are perfectly present without domination. Hearing and feeling them in a very pleasant way as if sound and air cooperate to make it just right. This is how it should be. Like putting on 3D glasses. The musical landscape gets an extra dimension. It is warm and deep and I can’t help it so say….”Holy macaroni” (which is an old Dutch saying meaning: ….I’m flabbergasted) This is some hearing experience!!


Something completely different. He puts on the Sugababes. Hole in the head. It is not music I prefer but that is not the reason why I am sitting on the hotspot. So babes, let’s go J. I’m surprised that my ears tell me something different from my prejudgment. The extra dimension these speakers offer makes it very nice to listen to. While listening I made an image of a rectangle on my piece of paper. This rectangle is where this dominant kind of pumping song has its body. This was meant to be I guess…for the crowd….in your face…. But don’t get me wrong…everything is still on place and has its own distinctive position with clarity and warmth. And then there is out of the box… there is this nice tingling Ping-Pong panning effect which makes you happy… No other way to put it. It is hard to explain what makes these speakers so special but I think it has to do with a very nice wide stereo image without losing the natural reproduction. A sort of…the real thing!


David Bowie, Ashes to Ashes. I will confine myself to the striking details now. That I am very enthusiastic about the speakers needs no further explanation. I now notice how many tracks have been used for vocals in this song. There is a upper stream and a undertow with vocals and bizarre effects. These speakers apparently do have the distinctive character to reveal these details.


Blackfield – Blackfield. The clarity of the rhythm guitar is striking. Not that I couldn’t hear it on my own speaker set but over here, on the hotspot it comes more forward.


Blackfield – Hello. In a way a little shocking to find out about the honesty of these speakers. The high frequencies that are floating above it all in this song are too dominant in my opinion, it is really hurting a bit. Too bad….but a honest message. Didn’t notice this before, at least not as strong as now, not in a way it disturbed me like now.

Overall….

Like I said, I’m a devoted listener but not a technician. Don’t know about charts and measurements and why it should have this or that value. I know what I hear and I know it sounds great. Like I mentioned, I’m a critical listener but….. It was a revelation.

Ronald, for me, for what it is worth, you accomplished a great result. Thanks for being a little part of it!

I'll see if I can get Jan Fekkes in again to let him hear the difference. More and more I'm looking into the recording, different on every song I listen to. But still only using that basic Stereo signal. The signal at the ears has been flattened (for a longer period) in time. That's the main difference between the shuffler and without it.

I had a lot more typed out but I don't want to step on peoples toes. It isn't until you try and get the room out of the equation that you really run into the "problems" of Stereo listening. You might ask yourself, do I really want that. As a room can add a certain pleasantness of it's own to the listening experience.

But I'm just not convinced adding a center is the solution for stereo listening. Not without a dedicated mix made for three channels (or more).

Did you ever go to great length to have flat FR starting low and ending as high as possible, with flat phase at the listening spot (meaning you'd have to control all early reflections) and judge that?

Contrary to popular believe that IR is really telling us a lot. Not everything though, but way more than many give it credit for. One of the things you don't get from it is the fact that we have 2 ears and a brain. And that brain part is pretty sophisticated. At least it can be :D.