Dear all
Looking for a man-cave HiFi system, in how to address for the frequency range 2.5...10 kHz. Above that I plan to use a rear-firing horn tweeter with high-pass.
But above a 4...5" midrange, I am looking to a 1" compression driver with a 60...90x40° horn. Something like: FaitalPro HF100 with B&C ME45 or P.Audio PH-3520
I am attracted by HF horns for their low distortion and high spl, but how do they sound indoor at low spl levels?
Does it make sense to use them for 75-85 dB listening habits in a 7x4.5x2.3 m room? (23x14x8 ft in US money)
Thanks!
Looking for a man-cave HiFi system, in how to address for the frequency range 2.5...10 kHz. Above that I plan to use a rear-firing horn tweeter with high-pass.
But above a 4...5" midrange, I am looking to a 1" compression driver with a 60...90x40° horn. Something like: FaitalPro HF100 with B&C ME45 or P.Audio PH-3520
I am attracted by HF horns for their low distortion and high spl, but how do they sound indoor at low spl levels?
Does it make sense to use them for 75-85 dB listening habits in a 7x4.5x2.3 m room? (23x14x8 ft in US money)
Thanks!
Do not worry, compression drivers sound equally beautiful at lower SPLs. Many reputed studio monitors use compression drivers. It's just that they need some processing (EQ) to get to flatness. 75-85 dB is perfect for watching film content.
Try to install the speakers along the smaller wall, so that the listening space is longer than it is wide, naturally weakening any reflections off the further wall (7m away).
All the best.
Try to install the speakers along the smaller wall, so that the listening space is longer than it is wide, naturally weakening any reflections off the further wall (7m away).
All the best.
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Yes!
Like VERY efficient wide range point sources w/sonic signature based on the diaphragm's material, horn type, so personally prefer pure waveguide loaded with aluminum and avoid Ti like the plague. If XOing lower at <7 kHz, then 'old school' phenolic designed for PA [high speech intelligibility] apps.
Indeed. At 75-80 dB spl at listening position, notes have more than enough dynamics, impact, detail, and satisfaction.
In addition, if one is using 1" CD, I don't see why you would need to add any supertweeter on top. In a good horn, good 1" CD has plenty of extension and air. In home situation where you are not blasting at 100+ dB levels, a 2-way with 1" CD on top plus reasonable mid/bass driver is much simpler and easier to achieve great sound quality with.
At sane volume levels, I can cross my Radian 1" Aluminum CD at 1 kHz at 18dB slope and hand off to twin 8" drivers. Sounds fantastic!
0219211531 by drjlo2, on Flickr
Agreed, just CD horn EQ it flat out to the driver's HF extreme limit or whatever mid-band SPL is to match up to the woofer.
Yep, I use a B&C DE250 per side down to about 950Hz. Fantastic sound, and I know I'll never blow a tweeter.
Chris
Chris
thanks for suggestions
should I go for a 90x40 or 60x40 when the speakers are set on the short wall?
My thinking is to avoid the early reflections from the side walls, or have them for spaciousness (comb filtering?)
In intend to apply the rule of thirds for placement, bringing out the speakers about 1.8 - 2 m from the front wall, and the couch in the similar manner from the back wall.
should I go for a 90x40 or 60x40 when the speakers are set on the short wall?
My thinking is to avoid the early reflections from the side walls, or have them for spaciousness (comb filtering?)
In intend to apply the rule of thirds for placement, bringing out the speakers about 1.8 - 2 m from the front wall, and the couch in the similar manner from the back wall.
Actually, everything is at your discretion. You need to try and find what you like. Try without damping, if not good, try adding panels to arrest primary reflections. You may also have to add carpets to the floor in either case.
Coming to horns, I think wider is better, as it results in similar spectral characteristics for both the direct and reflected sounds.
Coming to horns, I think wider is better, as it results in similar spectral characteristics for both the direct and reflected sounds.
The more narrow you go, the more difficult to find a device that will work well over a wide range for a given size. Staying nearer to 90 usually isn't too bad a compromise. It's often the narrower dimension in a non-axisymmetric flat-fronted device that limits its usefulness.
My feeling inclines also to a wider spread. 90° I think I can tame the 1st reflection with diy mineral-wool panels on the side walls.
@chris661, when looking to the B&C DE250 spec sheet, I have two questions:
1) crossing at 950 Hz as you did, would be -3db to the average response level. Is this ok? Spec says min xo at 1kHz, I guess I'd go 1.3 kHz by the graph.
2) the response is quite bumpy, although I read it before, it sound better that in looks on the graph. Any comments?
Teach me if I'm wrong.
@GM, when you say old-school crossing at 7kHz, you mean LPF or HPF? Sorry I'm a bit confused. What would be a good match above or below this XO?
@chris661, when looking to the B&C DE250 spec sheet, I have two questions:
1) crossing at 950 Hz as you did, would be -3db to the average response level. Is this ok? Spec says min xo at 1kHz, I guess I'd go 1.3 kHz by the graph.
2) the response is quite bumpy, although I read it before, it sound better that in looks on the graph. Any comments?
Teach me if I'm wrong.
@GM, when you say old-school crossing at 7kHz, you mean LPF or HPF? Sorry I'm a bit confused. What would be a good match above or below this XO?
A bigger issue I've had was placement w/regard to the woofer response in room. Once the tweeter was fitted with a waveguide I really didn't have any place in the room that didn't work well as far as the tweeter was concerned. Finding a spot where the woofer was happy was a bigger issue. That ended up being 1-1.5 meters away from boundaries for me. Here the woofer was pretty flat up to XO.
Just going by the manufacturers curves the Faital HF108R mentioned above would need little to no eq mounted on a 50x40 horn.
FaitalPRO | HF Drivers | HF108R (8Ω)
Unfortunately for me, I can hear a loss of transparency when using digital EQ/processing, so I had to bite the bullet and buy a bunch acoustic panels, including 4" thick bass panels, which work pretty well when strategically placed in room.
Acoustimac by drjlo2, on Flickr
HI @puppet
Thanks for bringing this up, I did the room modes calculation, and yes, it's obvious the subs and woofers need different placement than the highs.
I imagine in my quite narrow room (4.3m) the placement of the HF horns needs some fine tuning.
Thanks for bringing this up, I did the room modes calculation, and yes, it's obvious the subs and woofers need different placement than the highs.
I imagine in my quite narrow room (4.3m) the placement of the HF horns needs some fine tuning.
I use a 1" exit 1.75" ti compression driver with polymer surround at home and it sounds great even though its not a super high end product. If specifying a compresion driver in a traditional multiway speaker I would select a driver that could go low in frequency to reduce off axis response issues at the crossover. BMS do a driver that can go down to 1kHz: Overview . If for you however your looking for the best top octave performance I would choose a driver with a diphragm that remains pistonic to high frequency such as this 18 sound driver: Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers .
In terms of dispersion I would personally got for a 90*60 horn as long as your room is well damped at high frequency (carpets curtains etc.). I use a 90*40 horn at the moment which gives good coverage over 3 seats on a sofa.
In terms of dispersion I would personally got for a 90*60 horn as long as your room is well damped at high frequency (carpets curtains etc.). I use a 90*40 horn at the moment which gives good coverage over 3 seats on a sofa.
Happy to help.
1 - Yes, it would. You have to keep in mind that the specs they publish are within the context of PA usage. In that use case, I've hit compression drivers with 300w peaks. In my HiFi, the compression drivers are attenuated by about 20dB. ie, when the woofer is receiving 100w, the HF driver is receiving 1w. The very low power level means we can run them quite low without worrying much.
2 - The response depends strongly on the HF horn in use. I'm using 18Sound XT120 horns, which are pretty good apart from a rise around 3.5kHz, which needs to be tamed. In that horn, the output drops quickly below 900Hz IIRC. Since I'm not worried about excursion on the HF driver, I was happy to include that acoustic rolloff as part of the highpass crossover.
CD+horns almost always require some massaging of the frequency response to obtain the best sound. IMO, though, they're one of the best options for producing treble: Controlled directivity, high sensitivity, and very low distortion.
Chris