Hi everyone,
Can someone please explain to me the following principle:
I own an Electrocompaniet Ampliwire IIA amplifier and I am working on improving the power supply.
That transformer used has four secondary outputs per side and when checking the phase of the windings I discovered that two of the windings per side are out of phase.
I first thought that someone before me had modified the amplifier and had by accident wired some out of phase,
but after checking several other amps I discovered that it appears to have been manufactured that way.
I always thought that a transformer should be connected in phase, where comes my surprise in discovering this.
Does anyone have a logical explanation for a connection to a bridge rectifier that two of the four windings are out of phase with each other?
What are the advantages and disadvantage either one way or another?
Thank you in advance for any response you may have that would enlighten me.
I include a wiring diagram showing how the windings are connected on each bridge rectifier.
Can someone please explain to me the following principle:
I own an Electrocompaniet Ampliwire IIA amplifier and I am working on improving the power supply.
That transformer used has four secondary outputs per side and when checking the phase of the windings I discovered that two of the windings per side are out of phase.
I first thought that someone before me had modified the amplifier and had by accident wired some out of phase,
but after checking several other amps I discovered that it appears to have been manufactured that way.
I always thought that a transformer should be connected in phase, where comes my surprise in discovering this.
Does anyone have a logical explanation for a connection to a bridge rectifier that two of the four windings are out of phase with each other?
What are the advantages and disadvantage either one way or another?
Thank you in advance for any response you may have that would enlighten me.
I include a wiring diagram showing how the windings are connected on each bridge rectifier.
Attachments
What measurement did you take to reach this conclusion?
How does it matter, it becomes DC anyway?
Read about phase angles in transformers in a text for electrical design.
How does it matter, it becomes DC anyway?
Read about phase angles in transformers in a text for electrical design.
Hi,
I use the PhaseDots circuit from Mark Johnson to find the correct phase alignment between all secondary winding
I use the PhaseDots circuit from Mark Johnson to find the correct phase alignment between all secondary winding
That schematic makes no sense, did you draw it?Hi everyone,
Can someone please explain to me the following principle:
I own an Electrocompaniet Ampliwire IIA amplifier and I am working on improving the power supply.
That transformer used has four secondary outputs per side and when checking the phase of the windings I discovered that two of the windings per side are out of phase.
I first thought that someone before me had modified the amplifier and had by accident wired some out of phase,
but after checking several other amps I discovered that it appears to have been manufactured that way.
I always thought that a transformer should be connected in phase, where comes my surprise in discovering this.
Does anyone have a logical explanation for a connection to a bridge rectifier that two of the four windings are out of phase with each other?
What are the advantages and disadvantage either one way or another?
Thank you in advance for any response you may have that would enlighten me.
I include a wiring diagram showing how the windings are connected on each bridge rectifier.
What is the outside load?
Are +/- outputs connected in some way?
Where is Ground?
WHY would anybody make same colour coding wire pairs different phase?
It makes no sense at all.
Side note: answering "go read some (unspecified) book" is a useless answer ; can YOU answer the question?
Same as "google it" or "there is some YT video explaining it" without further details.
Otherwise it only calms some obsessive compulsion to "write something" ... no matter what.
Did you see the primary connections?
Apparently looped, so how is the input supplied?
Phase shifting is useless in single phase
So I did not post any links!
Apparently looped, so how is the input supplied?
Phase shifting is useless in single phase
So I did not post any links!
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My goal was not to draw the entire PSU, but only the connections to the Diode Bridge to show that two secondaries were plugged in out of phase. Only that.
Forget how primary is connected to the mains, it's not important, just that it's plugged in parallel, and for the ground, it's the four black wires plugged in together.
No, it was not me who chose the colors of the transfo wires
yes, there are capacitors after the diode bridges, which I did not draw, that was not the purpose of the exercise.
Forget how primary is connected to the mains, it's not important, just that it's plugged in parallel, and for the ground, it's the four black wires plugged in together.
No, it was not me who chose the colors of the transfo wires
yes, there are capacitors after the diode bridges, which I did not draw, that was not the purpose of the exercise.
Wiring half the transformer "in- phase" will result in 50/60 Hz supply ripple and twice the DC ripple amplitude than normal "push-pull" wiring that gives you 100/120Hz ripple. Normally you get a center tapped winding instead of two separate winding, which is impossible to get wrong. The transformer center tap is grounded which creates two independent positive and negative DC voltages. Typical amplifiers require two independent voltages, positive and negative so that large DC blocking capacitors are not required to connect the speaker, which provides better bass frequency response and avoids the potential distortion generated by the large electrolytic capacitors.
Please post the full schematic, from mains plug to power rails.My goal was not to draw the entire PSU, but only the connections to the Diode Bridge to show that two secondaries were plugged in out of phase. Only that.
Forget how primary is connected to the mains, it's not important, just that it's plugged in parallel, and for the ground, it's the four black wires plugged in together.
No, it was not me who chose the colors of the transfo wires
yes, there are capacitors after the diode bridges, which I did not draw, that was not the purpose of the exercise.
Your verbal explanation is not clear enough.
And also why does it bother you, if it is working as intended.
A detailed explanation would be enlightening.
A detailed explanation would be enlightening.
As I said in my first post, my goal was to replace the PSU inside the amplifier, with a better one. And it brought a huge improvement in the sound.
It was when I removed the old one and analyzed it that I discovered that there were secondary windings connected out of phase and this thanks to mr. Mark Johnson's PhaseDots circuit.
And since I'm curious, that's why I asked what the benefit of connecting these out-of-phase secondaries might be, nothing more.
You can be sure that I checked twice that I had not made any mistakes when I checked the polarity of the winding.
It was when I removed the old one and analyzed it that I discovered that there were secondary windings connected out of phase and this thanks to mr. Mark Johnson's PhaseDots circuit.
And since I'm curious, that's why I asked what the benefit of connecting these out-of-phase secondaries might be, nothing more.
You can be sure that I checked twice that I had not made any mistakes when I checked the polarity of the winding.
Normally, I will 100% agreed with you Rayma,
But in my amplifier's supply, the two green wires are connected to the diode bridge and the two black wires are connected to the ground.
And it's when I connected those windings to the PhaseDots circuit, I discovered that the number two and four secondaries are out of phase to the rest of the transformer
Normaly, the first green wire is supposed to be connected to the bridge, the first black et the second green wire connected together for the ground, and finally the second black wire to the bridge.
But this not what I have in my amp
But in my amplifier's supply, the two green wires are connected to the diode bridge and the two black wires are connected to the ground.
And it's when I connected those windings to the PhaseDots circuit, I discovered that the number two and four secondaries are out of phase to the rest of the transformer
Normaly, the first green wire is supposed to be connected to the bridge, the first black et the second green wire connected together for the ground, and finally the second black wire to the bridge.
But this not what I have in my amp
The two wires going to each bridge must have opposite polarity/phase to get DC out of the rectifier.
If they were the same polarity/phase, the diodes would not conduct.
In your diagram, the dots are correct, but the colors are wrong. The wires with dots should all be the same color.
Also the connection joining all the black wires together should be grounded.
Is the transformer manually wired from terminals on it, or are the wires captive to the transformer?
If they were the same polarity/phase, the diodes would not conduct.
In your diagram, the dots are correct, but the colors are wrong. The wires with dots should all be the same color.
Also the connection joining all the black wires together should be grounded.
Is the transformer manually wired from terminals on it, or are the wires captive to the transformer?
Okay, I have found the problem.
I had starting with the idea that all secondary green wires must be the first one. If I invert the second and the fourth winding, all become in phase
The schematic and the circuit will work now.
Thanks rayma, you had help me when you have talking about the dot and the color of the wire. This transformer have the dot associated with different color for the phase. It's the only possible explanation
I had starting with the idea that all secondary green wires must be the first one. If I invert the second and the fourth winding, all become in phase
The schematic and the circuit will work now.
Thanks rayma, you had help me when you have talking about the dot and the color of the wire. This transformer have the dot associated with different color for the phase. It's the only possible explanation
Attachments
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Yes, But it that way it can working as supposed.
It's my first transformer with the dot and the wire color that is not the same.
It's my first transformer with the dot and the wire color that is not the same.
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