is the GRS:
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-RT3.0-8-Hi-Res-Neo-Ribbon-Tweeter-8-Ohm-272-206?quantity=1
going to be as durable as Fountek ?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...lk-5-ribbon-tweeter-rectangular-flange-black/
are they both sandwich diaphragm ? it seems GRS is just aluminum. so it means it is fragile ?
what justifies the price discrepancy between the two ribbons ?
i would be blasting these with 130 decibel bass.
would they hold up ?
or at least one of them ?
i just want the cheapest true ribbon that won't break the second bass hits it, well, and also i want the ribbon element to be user replaceable.
i suppose that's the weakness of the fountek - that you can't make your own sandwich ribbon ? or can you ?
please educate me.
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-RT3.0-8-Hi-Res-Neo-Ribbon-Tweeter-8-Ohm-272-206?quantity=1
going to be as durable as Fountek ?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...lk-5-ribbon-tweeter-rectangular-flange-black/
are they both sandwich diaphragm ? it seems GRS is just aluminum. so it means it is fragile ?
what justifies the price discrepancy between the two ribbons ?
i would be blasting these with 130 decibel bass.
would they hold up ?
or at least one of them ?
i just want the cheapest true ribbon that won't break the second bass hits it, well, and also i want the ribbon element to be user replaceable.
i suppose that's the weakness of the fountek - that you can't make your own sandwich ribbon ? or can you ?
please educate me.
Why would bass hit it with a crossover.
3rd order be a good start.
They handle 30 watts power.
I dont think max SPL would be 130 dB
Crossover needs to be high so you still need a mid at 130 dB
Not easy either.
Is this live sound application? or is it 115 dB with a car cabin gain at 130
Unless their is a actual engineer that looked at the drivers. The price range isnt marked up 2x.
Otherwise because the price is too good your get typical snooty comments thinking paying more means more
better. Hence even if likely the GRS are better for all we know. The price dictates their expertise
3rd order be a good start.
They handle 30 watts power.
I dont think max SPL would be 130 dB
Crossover needs to be high so you still need a mid at 130 dB
Not easy either.
Is this live sound application? or is it 115 dB with a car cabin gain at 130
Unless their is a actual engineer that looked at the drivers. The price range isnt marked up 2x.
Otherwise because the price is too good your get typical snooty comments thinking paying more means more
better. Hence even if likely the GRS are better for all we know. The price dictates their expertise
I have a Fountek NEO CD3.0 and I think it's great for what I paid for them. I also listened to the NEO CD2.0, it's a fantastic tweeter, it just couldn't fit on my old boxes. I also bought original spare ribbons, just in case. Their ribbon is a plastic strip with aluminum foil, not pure wrinkled aluminum foil like on some others "true ribbon" tweeters. The Neo CD3.0 (also CD2.0) has a raising FR response, and curve shaping is needed to make it linear and not too harsh in sound. I used a filter (0.1mH+4.7 ohms in parallel) in front of the tweeter.
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our friend @lowmass believes they use regular foil based on the sample he had which claimed to be sandwich but wasn't ... but since Fountek made both kinds of ribbons ( both pure aluminum and sandwich ) in the past i think it was some kind of a mix up.
yeah that's a good point - i don't see them selling spare ribbons now. imagine you build an array and some of the ribbons go out - you can't replace them with regular foil ribbons because they won't match the others. and considering Fountek doesn't even have a website - can anybody count on the original ribbons being manufactured into the future ?
going back to our array example if even one ribbon fails and you can't get replacement you will have to replace ALL of them with regular foil ribbons ( since those can be DIYed ) ... unless sandwich ones can be DIYed ?
and if you're going to use regular foil then may as well start with something that uses regular foil, like Aurum Cantus ...
hence this new thread, sorry:
I'm using the grs in a build right now. Seems very well built. Be aware that the back cup is NOT sealed against airwaves. It needs some.protection built into the design.
It's sensitivity is very high. I'll have my crossover network built and ready to listen to the system next week
It's sensitivity is very high. I'll have my crossover network built and ready to listen to the system next week
I cannot speak to the fountek but I don't see why it wouldn't be any different. Assume any planar, ribbon, or AMT tweeter is not sealed on the back. So far, none of the ones I have used, are actually sealed.
OK i will assume that of any that are made in China.
but really this is ridiculous, and yet ridiculous is what you should expect whenever Chinese entrepreneurs target gullible American Audiophiles.
they literally have a plastic cup going around the thing and they couldn't make it sealed ? SMH ...
everything is relative. it appears to be 95 db. compared to average audiophile woofer which is about 85 db that is high. compared to Aurum Cantus ribbon that is 100 db it is not so high. and compared to a 115 db / watt compression driver ...
but the relevant comparison here is to other true ribbons. in which case it seems to match Fountek but Fountek uses a sandwich diaphragm which is supposed to be less efficient.
compared to other true ribbons that use pure aluminum ribbon such as Aurum Cantus and Raal it is less efficient by several DB.
does that matter ? probably not.
ribbon efficiency for any given size ribbon is a function of magnetic field strength and ribbon thin-ness. i estimate that compared to Aurum Cantus the GRS ribbon is twice as heavy and the magnetic field half as strong, resulting in about 5 db lower efficiency.
is Aurum Cantus worth 4X as much as GRS because of that extra 5db efficiency ? no. but i wonder what other differences there may be. i wonder if it is sealed for example.
No where do any of these say they are sealed. So why do you feel so offended?
What is this obsession with efficiency? Any ribbon tweeter is going to be so much more efficient than the rest of your system. You'll have to pad it down to match the mids and the woofers anyways.
imagine buying a car and then crashing it because it had no brakes and the dealer says "we never said it had brakes"
Apparently maybe not so, The system design would include 15 to 30 watt Ribbons in conjunction with 10 kilowatt subs.
The Aurum Cantus dont even have rear covers, but those are " better"
Then complain that the ones with covers are not completely sealed?
If you compare a equal GRS to Aurum Cantus Ribbon Area/ motors the efficiency is not more than 1 dB
Aurum Cantus does have other units with higher efficiency though.
Still same old 15 to 30 watt thermal rating.
Aurum Cantus provides a helpful ribbon replacement guide. And basic data sheet.
So expect them to need replacement, they were nice enough to show you how.
GRS provides on and off axis data and FRD/ZMA files.
So maybe sim a amazing vertical array and show us how amazing the vertical response will be with this 130 dB array
These are Ribbons for 3 kHz and up.
GRS and Aurum Cantus both use aluminum faceplates. Where all these magic engineering guesses come from, dont know.
So far one of the GRS ribbons actually has the better Accuracy and flatter frequency response.
Tend to just work with data, not guessing.
The Aurum Cantus dont even have rear covers, but those are " better"
Then complain that the ones with covers are not completely sealed?
If you compare a equal GRS to Aurum Cantus Ribbon Area/ motors the efficiency is not more than 1 dB
Aurum Cantus does have other units with higher efficiency though.
Still same old 15 to 30 watt thermal rating.
Aurum Cantus provides a helpful ribbon replacement guide. And basic data sheet.
So expect them to need replacement, they were nice enough to show you how.
GRS provides on and off axis data and FRD/ZMA files.
So maybe sim a amazing vertical array and show us how amazing the vertical response will be with this 130 dB array
These are Ribbons for 3 kHz and up.
GRS and Aurum Cantus both use aluminum faceplates. Where all these magic engineering guesses come from, dont know.
So far one of the GRS ribbons actually has the better Accuracy and flatter frequency response.
Tend to just work with data, not guessing.
What does that even mean?
Were talking about efficiency of 15 watt drivers, and in a realistic system for home HiFi they would likely be padded.
Depends
GRS provides FRD/ZMA files I am just dying to see at least a sim for a vertical 130 dB array
The vertical polar chart should be interesting to see
I think it is possible to replace this composite ribbon with corrugated aluminum foil. I bought tweeters and spare ribbons 5-6 years ago when they were available. Now maybe there is no more.
Maybe a better option is to get these yellow magnetostatic tweeters for array. They are cheaper and much more robust than ribbons. They don't appear to be easily damaged.
i don't know what software does simulations like this. if anybody has access to it then you should certainly do it. i would be interested in the results as well.
you mean something like this for the supertweeters:
https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-RT1C-A-Planar-Isodynamic-Tweeter-297-400?quantity=1
i suppose there is two ways to think about it ... one way is to say it will do the job for 1/5th the price
the other way is to say Aurum Cantus is almost 10db more efficient at 20 khz while also having higher thermal power handling as well ...
which is the correct way ? i don't know.