My background is in music production so I know very well all of the commercially available mixing / mastering monitors. I want to explore building my own.
From the monitors I have used I would like to take the general characteristics of:
- the highend from Genelec S30D ribbon tweeters
- the midrange from ATC scm200 soft domes
- the Lowend from Barefoot MM27 but with extended response
For my purpose I would like to be able to go to fairly high SPL's and also frequency linearity is crucial. Budget wise I want to be uncompromising but not needing to go into extreme esoteric territory.
1. What is the most suitable Ribbon Tweeter? (Raal 140-15D / Founteck NeoPro10i / others?)
2. What is the closest available driver to the midrange dome of the scm200's? (Volt VM752 / Morel SCM634 / others?)
3. Not sure what LF drivers would complement the above but would like 2 x 15" drivers in a side firing configuration (a la barefoot MM27) (Volt RV3863 / others?)
Would appreciate thoughts on this configuration with professional audio mastering in mind.
Currently designing a new studio so there are no space limitations - the studio will be big enough to accomodate any design.
Current thinking is to use Hypex amps / power supplies / DSP. But also open to other suitable pairings for the above.
Most likely closed cabinet and not ported design but this also not finalised.
Thanks in advance for any advice for this novice !
From the monitors I have used I would like to take the general characteristics of:
- the highend from Genelec S30D ribbon tweeters
- the midrange from ATC scm200 soft domes
- the Lowend from Barefoot MM27 but with extended response
For my purpose I would like to be able to go to fairly high SPL's and also frequency linearity is crucial. Budget wise I want to be uncompromising but not needing to go into extreme esoteric territory.
1. What is the most suitable Ribbon Tweeter? (Raal 140-15D / Founteck NeoPro10i / others?)
2. What is the closest available driver to the midrange dome of the scm200's? (Volt VM752 / Morel SCM634 / others?)
3. Not sure what LF drivers would complement the above but would like 2 x 15" drivers in a side firing configuration (a la barefoot MM27) (Volt RV3863 / others?)
Would appreciate thoughts on this configuration with professional audio mastering in mind.
Currently designing a new studio so there are no space limitations - the studio will be big enough to accomodate any design.
Current thinking is to use Hypex amps / power supplies / DSP. But also open to other suitable pairings for the above.
Most likely closed cabinet and not ported design but this also not finalised.
Thanks in advance for any advice for this novice !
I'd go for Purifi drivers (maybe wait for their tweeters)...if you really want a dome, Bliesma?...but I don't see any advantage in a studio environment...
What are your requirements? SPL? etc.
What are your requirements? SPL? etc.
I would only do this if the midrange drivers can handle a low crossover frequency, dome midrange drivers are then out of the question.
Many greetings,
Michael
Building a set of big mastering monitors sounds like lots of fun!
I hope I am not tempering your enthousiasm, but I would recommend reading the book "Sound Reproduction" by Floyd Toole first. Some relevant bits:
I see you have several great drivers on your mind and want to design a loudspeaker with those. An engineering approach however, is to start with the desired frequency response / dispersion pattern / mounting method etc. and then find the drivers that fulfill the job.
DSP based crossovers will make your life easy. You can get big bass by taking a large woofer and applying (DSP based) EQ. Scattering multiple subwoofers across the room might be of interest for you. Search for 'multisub'.
I hope I am not tempering your enthousiasm, but I would recommend reading the book "Sound Reproduction" by Floyd Toole first. Some relevant bits:
- Dispersion pattern is important
- Flush mounting a speaker in a wall is beneficial for a smooth lower midrange and a reason that is related to reflections from the front wall
- Frequency response is important
- Using multiple subwoofers + DSP equalization is a good idea
I see you have several great drivers on your mind and want to design a loudspeaker with those. An engineering approach however, is to start with the desired frequency response / dispersion pattern / mounting method etc. and then find the drivers that fulfill the job.
DSP based crossovers will make your life easy. You can get big bass by taking a large woofer and applying (DSP based) EQ. Scattering multiple subwoofers across the room might be of interest for you. Search for 'multisub'.
Yes, but this speaker has the woofers mounted on the front baffle, not in a sidefiring configuration on either side of the speaker as desired here.
Many greetings,
Michael
Ah indeed, missed it! Sorry.
@Maclogically, In a studio environment, try to have your speakers in an "in-wall" configuration. It's the best you can do.
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And have a look at the open source monkey box here. It’s not a matter of drivers. It’s a matter of well-executed design.
This I'd change to a mid. planar as forum member Studiotech has done.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-at-parts-express.360339/page-11#post-7052871
His choice of the scan-speak discover 10 is also excellent, as is the RAAL.
IF I had to go mid-dome it would be:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/bliesma/bliesma-m74s-6
A good DSP solution would provide what you need for crossover and linearity correction.
As noted: the Purifi drivers (2 of the 8" versions in particular) will provide you with higher output levels at very low distortion, but the 8" 2x will require more cabinet volume than something like the MM27 (unless you are boosting the low-end a LOT). Otherwise the 6" variety 2x will be OK but won't have the "headroom" at lower freq.s.
I hate to break the news but there is no such thing as an ultimate monitor. From your reference list it seems to be focused on near fields with accurate revealing mids - these type of monitors are usually presenting you with fatigue over time due to the very revealing sound. Remember it is design to reveal flaws. Not for listening. Which is why the Yamaha was so popular for near field. No mistake would get past it. On the other hand it actually seems your looking for design a main speaker for far field fun listening and control monitoring how the song would sound like in a club or other nice places representing the actual sound most people like bass heavy easy listening. Think about that for a minute. A one speaker fits all full range flat response might actually in turn have the opposite effect just being boring and also not so revealing but just flat and also very demanding of the room. If the speaker is transparent then everything else isn’t. I recommend two sets of monitors in a studio for the various applications. 2x15 is very fun but if you make it flat then you sort of take away the beauty of it. Like the JBL Everest. Such flat and nice speaker but the bass isn’t what you would expect from such a beast.
Totally take the point that there is no "ultimate" speaker. I guess I am just thinking about the most satisfying elements from all the speakers I have used and using that as a starting point. Have not really thought out how well those elements would work together - just know that those elements in their current contexts have been the most satisfying for me to date. I have an EV rig for the "club" feel. I would take a revealing and fatiguing sound (if authentically accurate) over a less accurate easy listener... the scm200's I had were well balanced - definitely hit the criteria of being flat and fun ! The barefoots on the other hand I found very accurate and great to mix on / not fatiguing but definitely lacked the "fun" factor of the ATC's.
Will check out the options you suggested - thanks.
Re the DSP solution is the HYPEX DSP solution a good one or are there others I should consider?
No Limit on Cabinet volumne - the studio itself has been designed already but would scale the room itself to optimum size based on the final design of the monitors.
Definitely expecting this to be a multiple year journey!
I guess I am thinking about the drivers that I have experienced producing satisfying outcomes in their respective frequency ranges - obviously contextualised by their cabinets. So given that there are no limits aesthetically or dimensionally for me cabinet design wise, I am working at it in a backwards fashion. Maybe my naiveté will catch up to me ! But once I have settled on drivers the idea would be to create the optimum merging of cabinet designs based again on what I have enjoyed in the past. Also for me prototyping cabinet designs is quick and inexpensive as I have a fully kitted out woodwork / metalwork shop.
Sidefiring would mean that the crossover would have to be lower as oppossed to front baffle? If not what is the reason that sidefiring would not work with the 3" dome where as it does work in the scm300's?
Sidefiring — my experience strongly suggests a pair of side firing woofers mounted push-push.
We ended up XOing at 450Hz, but how high you can go depends on the dispersion of the woofers used. Ours use 5.25”
i doubt a 3” dome reaches low enuff.
dave
We ended up XOing at 450Hz, but how high you can go depends on the dispersion of the woofers used. Ours use 5.25”
i doubt a 3” dome reaches low enuff.
dave
Hmmm - I do appreciate the advantages of soffit mounting but I guess I would like to have the option of moving them if ever required and also really like what the barefoots achieve with their sidefiring design. It is tempting though as the studio I am building will be built into the hillside so the wall behind the speakers is literally the rock of the hill which provides interesting options!
Just saw this was mentioned above, but here it is again!
Its the side firing bit you missed out that rules out a high crossover point which in turn rules out side firing woofers. With side firing woofers and especially in a nearfield monitor ie under 1.5 meters ear to midrange distance, the highest crossover I would use with side firing woofers would be 80Hz if using 48dB FIR / DSP... Probably 60Hz if using 24dB slopes. Hope this helps.
The bottom line with side firing woofers (SFW) is that the upper crossover frequency is limited by- (a) the wavelength of sound at the crossover frequency, (b) the time domain/wavefront coherence. There is a lot of tech talk and explanation and even more opinions (as with all things audio!) but in my experience here are the main pros/cons.
(1) Pros - (a) Enables a narrow front baffle and reduces cabinet size ie saves money on cabinet costs. (b) Reduces cabinet vibrations, it does not cancel or eliminate them despite marketing claims... Just feel the Barefoots cabinets at high SPL!
(2) Cons - Introduces time domain distortion as the midrange and treble have a shorter driver to ear distance than the bass/low midrange driver... In my experience time domain distortion is far more damaging / fatiguing than frequency or harmonic distortion. Whilst DSP time delay can compensate for this, very often it just solves the physical time delay issue by introducing filter ringing / delay of DSP at the crossover point... Baby and bathwater... Best not have the issue in the first place!
(3) The time domain distortion can be minimised by keeping below 80Hz or so crossover, but its still a lot of FIR/DSP computation to handle this properly at low frequencies.
Hope this helps.
In wall is totally 100% worth it.... So much better than any free standing design. I would suggest finding a couple of high end studios with good in wall monitors and going for a listen before you make any final decisions.
We cross to a midTweeter and the C-C falls near the quarter0wavelength distance.
dave