Hi, can anyone tell me how to make a simple logic gate (OR\AND) from a 6F1P vacuum tube?
Tube info: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84805
Tube info: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84805
Vacuum tube NOR and NAND gate schematics
But I have to ask, why use tubes for logic today? This is one area where the advantages of solid state win hands-down.
Edit: The NOR and NAND are more versatile than the OR and AND. You can make any logic circuit from simple negative gates as building blocks.
But I have to ask, why use tubes for logic today? This is one area where the advantages of solid state win hands-down.
Edit: The NOR and NAND are more versatile than the OR and AND. You can make any logic circuit from simple negative gates as building blocks.
-Will this schematic work for an AND gate using a 6F1P tube?
ftp://nrouslan.dyndns.org/vaccuumGateProj.jpg
~Tube info: http://russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=353
~Tube charact.:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983768&stamp=1155712762
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983769&stamp=1155712792
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983770&stamp=1155712820
-How should I change it?
-Would 5VDC logic voltage work?
-Do I need to isolate the output or just connect it to a resistor+led?
To answer your question, I was doing it for a project demonstrating how transistor and tube logic gates worked for a class project.
Thanks in advance.
-Rouslan
ftp://nrouslan.dyndns.org/vaccuumGateProj.jpg
~Tube info: http://russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=353
~Tube charact.:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983768&stamp=1155712762
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983769&stamp=1155712792
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=983770&stamp=1155712820
-How should I change it?
-Would 5VDC logic voltage work?
-Do I need to isolate the output or just connect it to a resistor+led?
To answer your question, I was doing it for a project demonstrating how transistor and tube logic gates worked for a class project.
Thanks in advance.
-Rouslan
another thing, if I made something like this
http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/vtl.gif
What aproximate values should I use and is V1\V3 (in the picture) the amount of voltage?
http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/vtl.gif
What aproximate values should I use and is V1\V3 (in the picture) the amount of voltage?
There is a great deal of discussion of this sort of stuff on the neonixie-l Yahoo!!!!! group. We like to build clocks with nixies & preferably vacuum-based logic - thyratrons are popular, but there are some there that have built scary scary stuff:
Wonderful tube clock
This is in German, but Google & Yahoo language tools both do a fair (and amusing) job of translation.
Lots to be learnt from there...
HTH
Wonderful tube clock
This is in German, but Google & Yahoo language tools both do a fair (and amusing) job of translation.
Lots to be learnt from there...
HTH
Heres a good presentation
Heres a good little presentation that gives you the voltage if you scroll down. Although I don't think it is for your specific tube, I thought it would help.
Heres a good little presentation that gives you the voltage if you scroll down. Although I don't think it is for your specific tube, I thought it would help.
For suitable logic levels, you can make any magnitude-counting logic gate. That is:
- NAND changes state when the number of active inputs is maximal (N active = M total)
- NOR changes state when active inputs is >= 1 (regardless of M)
- You could define other (symmetrical) >2 input gates for inbetween cases, e.g., output changes when >= 2 inputs are active, etc.
You don't need to use parallel devices (like the first link's NOR gate), you can simply connect the grid to the voltage divider(s) from proceeding stages. The grid voltage resulting from multiple dividers connected in this way will be, for example:
Source 1 = 50V, Source 2 = 50V: grid voltage -8V ("off", so output will be "high")
Source 1 = 50V, Source 2 = 100V (or 100 and 50, respectively -- same result): grid voltage +2 ("on", so output will be "low")
Source 1 = 100V, Source 2 = 100V: grid voltage +12* ("on", so output will be "low")
*Of course, the grid will conduct; this would only be the voltage without a grid connected to the voltage divider. The consequence of grid current is lower saturation voltage (particularly for a triode), which should be designed for minimal effect.
As for voltages and values: grid resistors around 100k, and plate resistors around 10k, will be quite reasonable with most types. Plate supply 100-200V should be plenty, and you'll need a similar negative supply for grid bias. The plate resistors can be much smaller than in typical audio applications, because the voltage gain needed is not very high: in the above example, a maximum 20Vpp swing went from "off" to "on". With the gain reduction due to cutoff and saturation, and due to using the grid voltage dividers, you still only need a gain of 10 or so.
Unless you can find a project where someone's used tube logic already, you'll have to go to the drawing board and use the plate curves to come up with the correct values.
Tim
- NAND changes state when the number of active inputs is maximal (N active = M total)
- NOR changes state when active inputs is >= 1 (regardless of M)
- You could define other (symmetrical) >2 input gates for inbetween cases, e.g., output changes when >= 2 inputs are active, etc.
You don't need to use parallel devices (like the first link's NOR gate), you can simply connect the grid to the voltage divider(s) from proceeding stages. The grid voltage resulting from multiple dividers connected in this way will be, for example:
Source 1 = 50V, Source 2 = 50V: grid voltage -8V ("off", so output will be "high")
Source 1 = 50V, Source 2 = 100V (or 100 and 50, respectively -- same result): grid voltage +2 ("on", so output will be "low")
Source 1 = 100V, Source 2 = 100V: grid voltage +12* ("on", so output will be "low")
*Of course, the grid will conduct; this would only be the voltage without a grid connected to the voltage divider. The consequence of grid current is lower saturation voltage (particularly for a triode), which should be designed for minimal effect.
As for voltages and values: grid resistors around 100k, and plate resistors around 10k, will be quite reasonable with most types. Plate supply 100-200V should be plenty, and you'll need a similar negative supply for grid bias. The plate resistors can be much smaller than in typical audio applications, because the voltage gain needed is not very high: in the above example, a maximum 20Vpp swing went from "off" to "on". With the gain reduction due to cutoff and saturation, and due to using the grid voltage dividers, you still only need a gain of 10 or so.
Unless you can find a project where someone's used tube logic already, you'll have to go to the drawing board and use the plate curves to come up with the correct values.
Tim
Somebody resurrected this thread from long ago ... anyway ...
in practise logic gates in actual commercial vacuum tube computers were usually done with "crystal diodes" followed by a tube inverter
well, at least starting in 1953 as documented on page A13 ff (of 400) in the "IBM 700 Series Component Circuits Manual", a very detailed and thorough reading for anyone interested in this subject ...
it can be found here: IBM 700 Series Component Circuits Manual
in practise logic gates in actual commercial vacuum tube computers were usually done with "crystal diodes" followed by a tube inverter
well, at least starting in 1953 as documented on page A13 ff (of 400) in the "IBM 700 Series Component Circuits Manual", a very detailed and thorough reading for anyone interested in this subject ...
it can be found here: IBM 700 Series Component Circuits Manual
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