Hi Thanks for reading. I need help with an open baffle speaker. I am using a B&W driver in a sealed box to reproduce the low end as I do not have the space for OB bass, xover frequency of 400hz with second order rolloff
The mid is minimalist OB visaton B200 which a lot of people seem to like, and finally a B&W tweeter with a 10khz crossover
The two B&W units sound good but the visaton is beaming and boring to listen to. What driver would you recommend to swap out for the visaton. For every drive unit that holds promise, I then read reports from a ton of haters. Lowthers were reported to be good but then in other posts haters tore the lowthers to pieces
I have tried filters and phase plugs with the visatons but am still not happy
The mid is minimalist OB visaton B200 which a lot of people seem to like, and finally a B&W tweeter with a 10khz crossover
The two B&W units sound good but the visaton is beaming and boring to listen to. What driver would you recommend to swap out for the visaton. For every drive unit that holds promise, I then read reports from a ton of haters. Lowthers were reported to be good but then in other posts haters tore the lowthers to pieces
I have tried filters and phase plugs with the visatons but am still not happy
Fullrange speakers are weird beasts. How they sound, much depend on the amplification. For me, Visaton B200 sounded best with the transconductance amplifier (i.e. the amplifier with a highish output impedance), like Pass F2. What amplifier are you using?
If you want a speaker that doesn't beam that much, you must choose a smaller one. Try for example Markaudio CHN-50 or something similar. But, you'll loose eficiency. Hence, no "magic" solution, just a set of compromises, depending on what you are willing to do.
As they say "pick your poison"...
If you want a speaker that doesn't beam that much, you must choose a smaller one. Try for example Markaudio CHN-50 or something similar. But, you'll loose eficiency. Hence, no "magic" solution, just a set of compromises, depending on what you are willing to do.
As they say "pick your poison"...
I have a Topping PA5II amp and also a Quad 909. Nelson Pass has used Lowthers in single full range speaker designs and seems happy with the results. Siegfried Linkwitz has a few open baffle single driver designs.
The Visaton B200 is an old driver now, I am hoping something new and better has come along
Visaton B200 is a good driver. But it is really picky about the amplifier. It does not sound good with a typical solid state amp. You have to either try it with a tube amp, or a transconductance one (Pass F1, F2, some chipamp mods).
If you are not ready to change amps, then...you change the Visaton. Markaudio Pluvia 7HD or something similar is a safer bet...
If you are not ready to change amps, then...you change the Visaton. Markaudio Pluvia 7HD or something similar is a safer bet...
Contrary to others...and myself too, I admittely scroll web pages of Pro drivers, and there are some midrange beasts that scare! Not that I want you to use a 100 dB/W/1m, 500 € midrange, but... there are nice 5-6-6 1/2"-8" midbass/ midrange.
ANd...10 kHz seems a bit high for crossing to a tweeter from such a large membrane as the B200.
ANd...10 kHz seems a bit high for crossing to a tweeter from such a large membrane as the B200.
Phase plugs largely fix that problem. Did you use these: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf
One of the best 2 8” FRs i have heard.
dave
5MDN 38 by B&C (250-10000 Hz)
6ND 430 from 18Sound (60-5000 Hz)
Or without the roll surround and 102 dB! the 6ND 410
Or again, with gum suspension by B&C, to make a comparison with the 6ND 430, the ( it just occurred to me that B&C bought 18Sound!) 5FG 44, which has ferrite magnet, not neodymium as the previouses.
Some coating on the paper for outdoor use is specified.
I'd avoid a pronounced roll surround, an inverted one would be ideal,
6ND 430 from 18Sound (60-5000 Hz)
Or without the roll surround and 102 dB! the 6ND 410
Or again, with gum suspension by B&C, to make a comparison with the 6ND 430, the ( it just occurred to me that B&C bought 18Sound!) 5FG 44, which has ferrite magnet, not neodymium as the previouses.
Some coating on the paper for outdoor use is specified.
I'd avoid a pronounced roll surround, an inverted one would be ideal,
Hello again,
Don't get fixed on the size of the driver. You may find a 3" one, or a 8" one that may sound good to your ears. But in general, the smaller ones will sound smoother and will beam less. On the other hand, they will be less efficient.
Visaton B200 can sound good under two condotions: modification (phase plugs) and transconductance amplification( or tube amps) .
In the attached picture you can see my ex-OB with Visaton B200.
When I bought it, it sounded terrible to my ears, I was thinking it was money thrown away. Over time, they mellowed out, then I modded them (phase plug). Then, I started experimenting with the amplification. Until I got the sound I wanted. Mind you, that Open Baffle was biamped. Passive, the efficiency mismatch with the woofer made it sound too bright.
Now I see that you have similar issues with the Visaton B200, but that is not its fault. It is just not working under optimal conditions.
For example, if you look at geman designs (NoBox and similar), you will see that ze germans like to use a ton of passive correction, in order to "smooth out" the fullrange beast. I tried that approach, but wasn't happy. It was like giving a tranqulizer to a lion. It sounded smooth, but lifeless.
So, in your situation, you must start from the beginning.
First: Is your loudspeaker meant to be passive or active? If it is passive, you cannot just drop any drivers you have and hope that they will match. Active, you have more flexibility, but not everyone is ready to go with the hassle of two amps, active crossover/dsp, cables..
So, at first, let us know which woofer are you using? Some specs/pictures?
Then, someone may suggest a suitable fullrange.
As I said, 4-5" fullrange may be a good middle ground, like Pluvia 7HD. If you want beter, Maop 10.2 gets a praise, but is more expensive...
But if you are not sure what are you doing, before throwing out money at blind shots, better go with a proven design...
Don't get fixed on the size of the driver. You may find a 3" one, or a 8" one that may sound good to your ears. But in general, the smaller ones will sound smoother and will beam less. On the other hand, they will be less efficient.
Visaton B200 can sound good under two condotions: modification (phase plugs) and transconductance amplification( or tube amps) .
In the attached picture you can see my ex-OB with Visaton B200.
When I bought it, it sounded terrible to my ears, I was thinking it was money thrown away. Over time, they mellowed out, then I modded them (phase plug). Then, I started experimenting with the amplification. Until I got the sound I wanted. Mind you, that Open Baffle was biamped. Passive, the efficiency mismatch with the woofer made it sound too bright.
Now I see that you have similar issues with the Visaton B200, but that is not its fault. It is just not working under optimal conditions.
For example, if you look at geman designs (NoBox and similar), you will see that ze germans like to use a ton of passive correction, in order to "smooth out" the fullrange beast. I tried that approach, but wasn't happy. It was like giving a tranqulizer to a lion. It sounded smooth, but lifeless.
So, in your situation, you must start from the beginning.
First: Is your loudspeaker meant to be passive or active? If it is passive, you cannot just drop any drivers you have and hope that they will match. Active, you have more flexibility, but not everyone is ready to go with the hassle of two amps, active crossover/dsp, cables..
So, at first, let us know which woofer are you using? Some specs/pictures?
Then, someone may suggest a suitable fullrange.
As I said, 4-5" fullrange may be a good middle ground, like Pluvia 7HD. If you want beter, Maop 10.2 gets a praise, but is more expensive...
But if you are not sure what are you doing, before throwing out money at blind shots, better go with a proven design...
Attachments
Thanks! There are plenty of design ideas for the markaudio units on this website and others so i do have a lot of support
On the mark audio website i can see alpair, pluvia and maop.
Can't find the maop 10.2 over here in the uk, but the moap 10 is available for £225 a pair.
Pluvia uk price is £100 a pair so a lot cheaper
Alpair 10.3 uk price £160 a pair
All seem like good units with good comments from users.
Do you have any thoughts on these, are the more expensive ones worth the money, sound quality, cone break up
Thanks
On the mark audio website i can see alpair, pluvia and maop.
Can't find the maop 10.2 over here in the uk, but the moap 10 is available for £225 a pair.
Pluvia uk price is £100 a pair so a lot cheaper
Alpair 10.3 uk price £160 a pair
All seem like good units with good comments from users.
Do you have any thoughts on these, are the more expensive ones worth the money, sound quality, cone break up
Thanks
Can you name any transconductance amps
Also what do you think about gold leaf instead of alu foil
@goodguys
you can make these amps yourself. Rod Elliot has one LM3875 designed and posted in the forum. Adason one with LM3886.
one forum member sells these sophisticated ones:
https://www.baffless.com/analog-amp
I tried bronze looks like gold.
Gold alone is too mellow and its expensive.
Technically its less good than alu foil
different types of thin metal foils
you can make these amps yourself. Rod Elliot has one LM3875 designed and posted in the forum. Adason one with LM3886.
one forum member sells these sophisticated ones:
https://www.baffless.com/analog-amp
I tried bronze looks like gold.
Gold alone is too mellow and its expensive.
Technically its less good than alu foil
different types of thin metal foils
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To apply the foil to the speaker cone, you just use some pva glue then smooth the foil out is that correct
As you have tried the various mark audio drivers can you please clarify, people on other forums are saying there is little difference between the moap, the alpair and the pluvia in real life set up, the units produce a different kind of some from each other but in sound quality terms there is little between them - would you agreePhase plugs largely fix that problem. Did you use these: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf
One of the best 2 8” FRs i have heard.
dave