Hi All,
Most of the drivers I tried to simulate needs large enclosures for subs.
What kind of drivers (TS parameters) are suitable for small enclosure??
Small in the sense, the box can be little bigger than the driver itself.
(For example, for a 12" driver, box can be upto 14"x14"x14")
Low Vas in needed as far as I know...
what other parameters need to check for small boxes?
(Please suggest for both sealed and ported separately)
Thanks in advance,
Most of the drivers I tried to simulate needs large enclosures for subs.
What kind of drivers (TS parameters) are suitable for small enclosure??
Small in the sense, the box can be little bigger than the driver itself.
(For example, for a 12" driver, box can be upto 14"x14"x14")
Low Vas in needed as far as I know...
what other parameters need to check for small boxes?
(Please suggest for both sealed and ported separately)
Thanks in advance,
Low Vas, a < ~0.312 Qts. Note vent will be large if high power, so not necessarily the most compact relative to a larger cab.
GM
GM
I checked many 12" bass drivers from Beyma, Faitalpro etc. All of them need large cabinets and longer ports for flat response.
But most of the branded subs for HT are very compact.
That's the reason I'm wondering how brands are managing with small cabinets and what kind of drivers are suitable for smaller enclosures. ....
But most of the branded subs for HT are very compact.
That's the reason I'm wondering how brands are managing with small cabinets and what kind of drivers are suitable for smaller enclosures. ....
Some have custom designed woofers and all with on board or separate amps are using DSP AFAIK to shape the too small cab's frequency response. Affordable, high SQ DSP has convinced me that for most apps this is the way to go. I recently finally got a chance to experience whole room EQ combined with speaker system DSP and frankly couldn't believe my ears.
When it comes to audio reproduction, look up 'hard to impress' in the dictionary and you'll see my name. The only downside [and a major one for me personally] is that while technically correct enough to fool me, it was a much too 'dry'/'clinical'/'plastic' presentation and sure enough [and I prefer the 'heart attack fast' kind of 'dry'], I was the only one that didn't declare it the most accurate, smooth as a baby's bottom HIFI experience ever!
For sub systems though, our hearing acuity is so poor I'm looking forward to having my own some day, but no way I'm going to use it on my Altecs!
GM
When it comes to audio reproduction, look up 'hard to impress' in the dictionary and you'll see my name. The only downside [and a major one for me personally] is that while technically correct enough to fool me, it was a much too 'dry'/'clinical'/'plastic' presentation and sure enough [and I prefer the 'heart attack fast' kind of 'dry'], I was the only one that didn't declare it the most accurate, smooth as a baby's bottom HIFI experience ever!
For sub systems though, our hearing acuity is so poor I'm looking forward to having my own some day, but no way I'm going to use it on my Altecs!
GM
Thanks a lot for the knowledge sharing !!!
I made a pair of H frames and they are fine for music. Bass is natural and somewhat realistic. But they won't work for movies.
I built some sealed and ported subs earlier for movies. Now I want to explore ways to build compact subs with 12" drivers.
So basically driver options are too less unless we use EQ, DSP, etc ...
I made a pair of H frames and they are fine for music. Bass is natural and somewhat realistic. But they won't work for movies.
I built some sealed and ported subs earlier for movies. Now I want to explore ways to build compact subs with 12" drivers.
So basically driver options are too less unless we use EQ, DSP, etc ...
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Many car woofers like to live in smaller sealed boxes. Look for a low fs. A 12" needs about 100 liters netto to get a Qtc of around 0.7 and if you stuff the box you can make it about 25% smaller. This will sound best and results in a roll off that will be compensated for with room or corner gain.
Effectively it will go lower then a ported box of similar size.
If you make the box even smaller you will get less low end and can compensate for that with EQ or DSP. You might be better of with a smaller driver.
14"x14"x14"= ~ 43 liter bruto volume; then a 10" or even 8" suits better.
Effectively it will go lower then a ported box of similar size.
If you make the box even smaller you will get less low end and can compensate for that with EQ or DSP. You might be better of with a smaller driver.
14"x14"x14"= ~ 43 liter bruto volume; then a 10" or even 8" suits better.
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Check out eminence lab 12 driver, and there should be some other cheaper with similar specks. Lots of projects with that old driver, it should be relatively easy to find alternatives from them threads. Lab12 was designed for a front loaded horns but works fine in a ~100l reflex low tuning, or 14" cubicle sealed just fine for home use.
Many car woofers like to live in smaller sealed boxes. Look for a low fs. A 12" needs about 100 liters netto to get a Qtc of around 0.7 and if you stuff the box you can make it about 25% smaller. This will sound best and results in a roll off that will be compensated for with room or corner gain.
Effectively it will go lower then a ported box of similar size.
If you make the box even smaller you will get less low end and can compensate for that with EQ or DSP. You might be better of with a smaller driver.
14"x14"x14"= ~ 43 liter bruto volume; then a 10" or even 8" suits better.
Hi.... Thanks a lot for the inputs !!!
Check out eminence lab 12 driver, and there should be some other cheaper with similar specks. Lots of projects with that old driver, it should be relatively easy to find alternatives from them threads. Lab12 was designed for a front loaded horns but works fine in a ~100l reflex low tuning, or 14" cubicle sealed just fine for home use.
Will check that !! Thank you....
Basically I understood low Vas and Low Qts I should be searching .....
it's a tricky question.
Getting low in a small sealed box without EQ will likely require a very inefficient driver with a low resonance frequency (Low Vas, Low Fs, Qts >0.4). But it will be inefficient.
Getting low in a small vented box without EQ will require the same, except for the Qts, which should be 0.4 or less for best results. But here's the thing - the size of the vent will make a difference to how the subwoofer performs, and the vent may have to be long to achieve the target resonance frequency, which in turn may limit the subwoofer's usable bandwidth. You can opt for using passive radiators instead of vents (like the Sunfire subwoofers), but the result will be more expensive.
Designing a subwoofer involves choosing which compromises you're prepared to live with...
Getting low in a small sealed box without EQ will likely require a very inefficient driver with a low resonance frequency (Low Vas, Low Fs, Qts >0.4). But it will be inefficient.
Getting low in a small vented box without EQ will require the same, except for the Qts, which should be 0.4 or less for best results. But here's the thing - the size of the vent will make a difference to how the subwoofer performs, and the vent may have to be long to achieve the target resonance frequency, which in turn may limit the subwoofer's usable bandwidth. You can opt for using passive radiators instead of vents (like the Sunfire subwoofers), but the result will be more expensive.
Designing a subwoofer involves choosing which compromises you're prepared to live with...
I checked many 12" bass drivers… All of them need large cabinets and longer ports for flat response.
Most drivers today are designed for reflex enclosures.
The CSS SDX10 & SDX12 both work in a cubic foot net (sealed).
dave
Basically I understood low Vas and Low Qts I should be searching .....
Those are the key variables with Qts dominating until Vas becomes IB huge.......maybe this will help: A New Approach to Box Design and Woofer Selection
GM
Those are the key variables with Qts dominating until Vas becomes IB huge.......maybe this will help: A New Approach to Box Design and Woofer Selection
GM
Hello GM, this article is absolutely helpful!!
Thanks a lot for sharing !!
You're welcome! I don't recall when the article was published, but it dates to 1981 and didn't know it was on-line, just happened on it while looking for a similar one written up by Altec that use to be on-line.
Wonder if we can save it to DIYaudio as it's really a neat 'cheat sheet' for basic speaker alignments.
GM
Wonder if we can save it to DIYaudio as it's really a neat 'cheat sheet' for basic speaker alignments.
GM
Yes, the ratio between. The basic performance for a sealed box is set by the ratio of Fs:Qts.low Vas and Low Qts I should be searching .....
To make subs for tiny sealed boxes, a floppy suspension means the "final Vas" is basically air in the box. The resonance frequency of the closed box Fc is then determined by the moving mass-which is why expensive car audio subs for small boxes tend to have high moving mass to drive the resonance low. But IF you have plenty of power and flexible crossovers, I haven't found that so critical, you can tune around it. Low Q is indispensable though.
Small ported boxes, with big woofer sizes, wow, what a headache. I ended up using a shelf port often or physically things just didn't work.
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