I am not too sure the BBC got it entirely right with the LS3/5A.
But IMO Alan Shaw of Harbeth got the idea:
Just decided to build a better bass than the KEF B110A:
Harbeth Loudspeakers Factory Visit - YouTube
But IMO Alan Shaw of Harbeth got the idea:
Just decided to build a better bass than the KEF B110A:
Harbeth Loudspeakers Factory Visit - YouTube
Hi xrk971,
A word about the tweeter, my choice was based mostly on the fact that the dome of the tweeter is recessed deep inside of front plate. There were few available with such design.
I had a feeling that deepness of dome with even deeper voice coil would bring acoustic centers closer together in the final crossover design.
Prior to that I had couple of other tweeters for experiment but they would not work well with woofer behind the baffle, also I departed very early from the classic 3kHz crossing point and went ahead with as low as possible even if it posses danger to the tweeter. This was based on experimentation results.
My crossover point resides below 1800 Hz and have freshen up the sound of speaker as the tweeter is now handling more of sound with much greater speed and resolution. To be honest classic 3 kHz point is just too high if you want to achieve more resolving sound, especially if you use modest woofer like I did with Visaton.
A word about the tweeter, my choice was based mostly on the fact that the dome of the tweeter is recessed deep inside of front plate. There were few available with such design.
I had a feeling that deepness of dome with even deeper voice coil would bring acoustic centers closer together in the final crossover design.
Prior to that I had couple of other tweeters for experiment but they would not work well with woofer behind the baffle, also I departed very early from the classic 3kHz crossing point and went ahead with as low as possible even if it posses danger to the tweeter. This was based on experimentation results.
My crossover point resides below 1800 Hz and have freshen up the sound of speaker as the tweeter is now handling more of sound with much greater speed and resolution. To be honest classic 3 kHz point is just too high if you want to achieve more resolving sound, especially if you use modest woofer like I did with Visaton.
Thanks for that information Tubemax, its interesting I have to study it a bit more to know exactly what you mean but I do get most of what you are saying there. I am going to come back to this and read again when I'm ready with the crossover. I'm going active so hopefully I will have good control over where I have the tweeter.
The Dayton Audio tweeter is supposed to be a great tweeter from what I've been reading online, its also fantastic value for money. I really like the look of your bass driver as well it really looks the part. I went with a metal tweeter myself as I really like metal tweeter they are one of my favourite types. I had intentions of buying a particular one as well that lots recommend the Seas H1212 but after speaking to Falcon (a very knowledgeable seller) I picked up something totally different although it supposed to be better suited to my application. Their knowledge of drive units really is very specialist great to talk to these people.
I'm hoping with the active crossover I can experiment and play with different arrangements. I'm planning to model the BBC dip as well if that's even possible and a touch of warmth in the mids will be nice
But we'll see what happens.Hi Westsounds,
Regarding the tweeter position and his voice coil, I had in mind following picture from JBL manual where they describe acoustic centers of the drivers mounted in the baffle. If you move your drivers up & down or more front or to the back - there will be big changes in crossing frequency & summing plane/wave going up or down.
Best method is to measure it and change components in the crossover accordingly - however as I didn't had any measuring device - I opted to emulate first in the software and listen to it.
Upon assembly of pre-calculated crossover I was not happy so instead made variable crossover and listen to it while changing crossover values - it was relief to hear all the changes in the sound and find the sweet spot - you can read about it in my first link.
I guess that with active crossover there will be a lot more control over the summing of vertical nulls - at least nothing to do with soldering iron!
Btw, we are not alone in pursuit of ls3/5a design, take a look at this German link:
Hifi-Selbstbau - LS3/5a Battle des DIY-HiFi-Forums bei Blue Planet Acoustic
Regarding the tweeter position and his voice coil, I had in mind following picture from JBL manual where they describe acoustic centers of the drivers mounted in the baffle. If you move your drivers up & down or more front or to the back - there will be big changes in crossing frequency & summing plane/wave going up or down.
Best method is to measure it and change components in the crossover accordingly - however as I didn't had any measuring device - I opted to emulate first in the software and listen to it.
Upon assembly of pre-calculated crossover I was not happy so instead made variable crossover and listen to it while changing crossover values - it was relief to hear all the changes in the sound and find the sweet spot - you can read about it in my first link.
I guess that with active crossover there will be a lot more control over the summing of vertical nulls - at least nothing to do with soldering iron!
Btw, we are not alone in pursuit of ls3/5a design, take a look at this German link:
Hifi-Selbstbau - LS3/5a Battle des DIY-HiFi-Forums bei Blue Planet Acoustic
Attachments
And damn, I wish I had know about that SPH-145HQ before I'd ordered my SPH-130
I can feel another project coming on
Yes that 145 HQ does look very nice. But the 130 is the nearer spec wise to the original Kef B110.
Kef B110 Fr 38Hz Qt .31 Vas 23.6l
Sph130 Fr 38Hz Qt .32 Vas 22l
Sph 145hq Fr 52 Hz Qt .44 Vas 9.4l
145 HQ does have more loudness capability.
I am interested to see how things turn out.
Thanks for that information. I hadn't really regretted buying the 130, I've fitted it now and it looks like a really great driver but I'm really looking forward to hearing it as a complete speaker system. I'm waiting on an active crossover and some other bits now before I start tweaking. But I'm really pleased with how its gone together so far. If its as good as the 135TC I'll be delighted, but I'm sure it will be with the combination of the metal tweeter this time it may even out do my other set (to my liking), but I am kind of expecting it to in a way as I should have more control with the active crossover.
I've just gone for surface mounting myself in both projects. The first one started out with the woofer behind the baffle but as I said I don't really know what I'm doing so an in front option just seemed more logical in my case. And going on some of the finest speakers I've heard (apart from the original LS3/5A of course) most seem to mount drivers on the same plane.
As for tweaking I'm starting to think there is nothing magical or mystical about the whole process. It is basically down to science and with careful tweaking of the crossover, and with well thought out good quality and appropriate drivers of course, getting a sound which is as good as the original LS3/5A is not a mission impossible. If anything it could be improved over whilst retaining some of the originals charming qualities. And at a fraction of the cost. I seen a pair of Rogers on ebay earlier as it happens and these were 'relatively cheap' £1110 which is less than half new price. I would love to compare one day if I ever get the chance but the £1100 outlay is out of my financial comfort zone at the moment.
And yes I've seen that link before and used the translator to get a little info from it. I love there was so many, would have loved to have been a part of that test. Its such a great little design for a loudspeaker and they are all just variants of it. It is an amazing little package to get the main ingredients in a good way to the listener without needing lots of space, power or disturbing neighbours. So many of those drive units are familiar there as well with some great combinations.
That’s a nice cabinet. Is that one of those rosewood jobs from Moldova?
Pair DIY Speaker Box For Rogers LS3 / 5A, Rogers LS 3 / 5A rosewood spec bbc | eBay
Pair DIY Speaker Box For Rogers LS3 / 5A, Rogers LS 3 / 5A rosewood spec bbc | eBay
Don't look too closely at the cabinet its not the best
In fact the MDF earlier variant turned out better all round, but the cabinet, structure and dampening is all very good and solid on this speaker that's the main thing. This project was just about learning and seeing what I can do rather than pristine finish but I still wanted them to look nice. This time its a 12mm plywood cabinet the finish was a specialist Italian stick-on gloss veneer just for effect. The cabinet was made all with hand tools and fixed and glued together by my very hand. It cost me no where near a Moldova cabinet but this is just about what I can do with sound. Depending how things turn out I may pay more attention to cabinet finish in the future and possibly even buy some. We'll see The Maldovas do look extremely tempting though I've been looking at those for some time
Tell me why not then?
Modern, better drivers, capable of handling more power smoother frequency responses and reach places where those old (very expensive drivers for what they are) can't go.
Through the magic of active crossovers and equalisers capable of modelling of any speaker of simular size obviously why can't the BBC sound be recreated exactly?
They said it would never happen with digital modelling of guitar amplifers. Some used to sound similar but always had that digital edge or could never really deliver that valve amp/speaker experience. Until the Kemper came along. It's digital and replicates even the most vintage boutique amplifier exactly, even die hard professionals can't tell the difference.
It's purely superficial and cosmetic finish when you are using any type of wrap. To be perfectly honest wraps range from really terrible to some half decent ones out there if you look around. I have used various ones and I wouldn't really like to recommend anything as a lot of it really does look like badly photographed wood (which it is basically). And as for fitting it's the same as anything the more time and effort you put into it the better results I think. The MDF model I did came out ok and that was just a cheap wrap, the plywood here I took a punt on some more expensive types shipped from Italy to the UK. It Artesive if you want to check it out and I used a lacquered type here. But I also ordered two other non-gloss and I think those look a bit naff in the flesh if I'm honest. They are a bit of a gamble stick on veneers but better than bare MDF I suppose. As always though you are better off with a real wood veneer if you can possibly go for it.
Artesive - Artesive Wood Series - WL-021 Ebony Macassar Lacquered
From afar it looks great though.
yeah or if you squint
Its fine for a first attempt, I'll work on my cabinet skills in future
Be nice to have both really
but yes my focus is to see what can be done sonically first, and its look ok for now