My journey with amplifiers began when I really got into music—specifically metal, where low distortion and high clarity at high power are non-negotiable for quality listening and peak enjoyment. I built several decent passive speakers, mostly using parts from Samsung, Sony, and LG media centers. I experimented with some Russian gear like the S30. But what does a passive speaker need to run? Obviously, an amp. My first amp was a Bluetooth-integrated TPA3116 50w*2-based ZZ-Hifi board. It performed well for three years, but then the Bluetooth module started acting up. No big deal—I used a separate module. A few months later, the audio quality went to hell. Upon investigation, I found that the chip itself had burned out, lack of cooling? doubt it. whichever it is, the amp was robbed from caps and inductors by me, the rest is history.
Next, I tried two TPA3118 60w mono boards in stereo configuration. They sounded better than the TPA3116 but died after just a week. The reason? Simply unplugging the aux cable caused them to burst into flames. I bought two more of the same boards, and once again, unplugging the aux resulted in flames. Apparently, these boards have a serious design flaw. Frustrated by this, I decided to buy an amp that seemed like a god amongst these Chinese PCBs—the TDA7498E. I added Bluetooth, and it worked great for a few weeks. But then it started shutting down at any moderate volume, while still managing to play at low levels. The amp was utterly gutless, lacking any real bass.
If I were to rank these amps by sound quality, it would look like this:
1. TPA3118: Clear, dynamic, and actually sounded powerful. (5 bucks each)
2. TPA3116: Clear, powerful, and had some weight to it. (25 bucks)
3. TDA7498E: Mediocre clarity, didn’t sound heavy, and failed miserably to sound powerful because of its poor clarity. (50 bucks)
In the end, the recurring issue was always the chip itself. After further investigation, I realized these problems are a hallmark of cheap integrated Class-D amps. fixing them requires a full chip replacement, which, while I can do, isn’t worth it.
So now, I’m left with two options: a discrete Class-D amp or an AB class amp. I’m really liking the Wolverine amp and Project65 from BuildAudioAmps.com. Any help? all advices will be greatly appreciated!
Next, I tried two TPA3118 60w mono boards in stereo configuration. They sounded better than the TPA3116 but died after just a week. The reason? Simply unplugging the aux cable caused them to burst into flames. I bought two more of the same boards, and once again, unplugging the aux resulted in flames. Apparently, these boards have a serious design flaw. Frustrated by this, I decided to buy an amp that seemed like a god amongst these Chinese PCBs—the TDA7498E. I added Bluetooth, and it worked great for a few weeks. But then it started shutting down at any moderate volume, while still managing to play at low levels. The amp was utterly gutless, lacking any real bass.
If I were to rank these amps by sound quality, it would look like this:
1. TPA3118: Clear, dynamic, and actually sounded powerful. (5 bucks each)
2. TPA3116: Clear, powerful, and had some weight to it. (25 bucks)
3. TDA7498E: Mediocre clarity, didn’t sound heavy, and failed miserably to sound powerful because of its poor clarity. (50 bucks)
In the end, the recurring issue was always the chip itself. After further investigation, I realized these problems are a hallmark of cheap integrated Class-D amps. fixing them requires a full chip replacement, which, while I can do, isn’t worth it.
So now, I’m left with two options: a discrete Class-D amp or an AB class amp. I’m really liking the Wolverine amp and Project65 from BuildAudioAmps.com. Any help? all advices will be greatly appreciated!
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Re: Class-D
I have the NAD D 3045 which has an unusual plastic case. It has an integrated Hypex module and USB interface for streaming from a computer. If one pries the case open, it looks like a computer which has an analog output. IMO, class-D is not interesting for DIY joy. But I made a few simple mods.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/nad-d-3045-overheating-allegedly.379438/
I have the NAD D 3045 which has an unusual plastic case. It has an integrated Hypex module and USB interface for streaming from a computer. If one pries the case open, it looks like a computer which has an analog output. IMO, class-D is not interesting for DIY joy. But I made a few simple mods.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/nad-d-3045-overheating-allegedly.379438/
I won't go into detail about my experience with chip amps, but your statement, it isn't worth it, is the exact same feeling that I have about burnt up chips. Too much money went to all of the other fine components, not to mention the time that it took.
Hi as your statements seem to describe atypical issues also occurring repeatedly I have some questions.
1: What is the impedance of the loudspeakers?
2: what is the power supply voltage!?
3: what is the input level voltage (or output voltage of the source)?
4: what is the volume level playing metal music?
5: did you ever measure the chips temperature?
Class D is here to stay, all too often outperforms many a Class A/AB amplifier and can be made as reliable as one wishes it to be. Only not for 5 bucks playing metal with volume on position 11 😀
1: What is the impedance of the loudspeakers?
2: what is the power supply voltage!?
3: what is the input level voltage (or output voltage of the source)?
4: what is the volume level playing metal music?
5: did you ever measure the chips temperature?
That has to do with NAD/Bleusound being a mediocre brand and their poor design decisions in a few devices and has little to do with class D. It is one of the brands that use low quality electrolytic caps that fail too.
Class D is here to stay, all too often outperforms many a Class A/AB amplifier and can be made as reliable as one wishes it to be. Only not for 5 bucks playing metal with volume on position 11 😀
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Well, seems like Class D is just like the other classes. In that there is junk out there, ranging up to great, if you get the better amps. Not unexpected in any way.
Still have a few 6 Euro TPA3116 amplifiers that just would not die from testing.
Hi Jean. thanks for helping.
1. i ran different speakers, most often it's 6ohms. (probably 5.4 because of editional tweeter, i will go messure when am home) edit: main speaker is 4.8 ohms, sub is 5.5 ohms. weird *** impedances.
2. psu voltage for TPA3116 was 23.5 volts, TPA3118 23.5 volts, the TDA7498E 32v.
3. the bt module is pretty average, i belive it gave 0.9v. couldn't be above that.
4. most common were 20%, 70% and 100.
5. yes. all ran under 45 degrees. (minus the temps when some burst into flames).
thanks for any additional information!
1. i ran different speakers, most often it's 6ohms. (probably 5.4 because of editional tweeter, i will go messure when am home) edit: main speaker is 4.8 ohms, sub is 5.5 ohms. weird *** impedances.
2. psu voltage for TPA3116 was 23.5 volts, TPA3118 23.5 volts, the TDA7498E 32v.
3. the bt module is pretty average, i belive it gave 0.9v. couldn't be above that.
4. most common were 20%, 70% and 100.
5. yes. all ran under 45 degrees. (minus the temps when some burst into flames).
thanks for any additional information!
Yes, I must say that I have built Pete Millett's 50 watt SP1 tube/class D mono modules as well. In that case I have had no problems and the sound quality mostly depends on the source. I actually do have a BlueSound Vault 2i, and when using an outboard DAC, the performance is raised to a level that I can at least peruse through my stored albums getting maybe 80% of the quality of my TT setup. As mentioned, the quality before the amps is important, and lately, I have been using the Iron Pre that I built and plan to not go higher for placement in my system.
Yes Bluesound streaming devices also have mediocre (implemented) DACs and really need an external DAC. Their quality is in the software and features and definitely not sound quality/longevity. If one likes high sound quality they are not the right choice.
I promise will not call all streaming devices mediocre now 🙂
I promise will not call all streaming devices mediocre now 🙂
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Low impedances and running the TPA3116/8 chips practically at the absolute maximum working voltage at very high levels.
Solved, this is a combination of a few user errors combined with ultra low cost electronics one can not expect much from. There is no correlation with class D as topology nor its reliability*. Sorry. The disappointment comes from expecting too much from own decisions that do not correlate with the required/desired performance.
* The thread title really is misleading and should be corrected.
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Budget?
The 1200AS2 from icepower works for few years already in my system.
Also the 200AS2 but it goes to the system that I'm not using it that often.
For reliability I believe Pascal, Powersoft modules won't fail you since they're in PA business and that's a much harsh use case compare to home audio but their module isn't that easy to obtain.
Icepower, Hypex, Purifi are all very reliable modules.
The 1200AS2 from icepower works for few years already in my system.
Also the 200AS2 but it goes to the system that I'm not using it that often.
For reliability I believe Pascal, Powersoft modules won't fail you since they're in PA business and that's a much harsh use case compare to home audio but their module isn't that easy to obtain.
Icepower, Hypex, Purifi are all very reliable modules.
soooo, my fault?
i saved negative 95$, don't have a working amp + wasted a crap ton of time. should have just built a Wolverine amp instead...
Moved to Class D
hmph. should i give thees amps a shot again, but under run them? funny. that's why i bought the TDA7498E one. it claims 160w*2 i was only running it 80w*2 maybe 90*2. if that ain't under running i don't know what is. the chip can handle 36v in absolute maximum, recommended voltage is 32 if i remeber correctly. but that guy died the fastest.
also, what should i rename the thread as?
also, what should i rename the thread as?
hmm. i have some pcb design xp, and i get the basics of how an amp works, should i try designing a d-class mosfet based amp? or should i stop being a dumdum and do something ab class like the wolverine?
Just choose stuff capable playing at deafening levels. Don’t believe the power numbers of ultra low cost stuff either and since when is playing at maximum output power normal? Choose amplifiers preferably with a PSU with a reasonable margin (not 0.5V below absolute maximum voltage). You were NOT under running them as they all died in your situation. What is needed to make you understand that?
Thread title suggestion: “Which affordable class D amplifier to pick for playing metal LOUD?”
Thread title suggestion: “Which affordable class D amplifier to pick for playing metal LOUD?”
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