I see a lot of folks putting a lot of effort into this DAC still. I had several early Philips / Magnavox units and the good fortune way back when to score a couple of Walt Jungs' pooge kits for them - wonderful stuff! I even scored a double crown for my best machine.
That's my way if saying I respect it a lot, but wonder why so much activity nowadays. Is it simply available inventory, or maybe we're loving the 7220 filter chip that it worked with, or what? Thanks.
That's my way if saying I respect it a lot, but wonder why so much activity nowadays. Is it simply available inventory, or maybe we're loving the 7220 filter chip that it worked with, or what? Thanks.
An open door but anyway:
A. It can sound extremely good (with a lot of work).
B. It is hyped big time.
C. It has become expensive so it must be good.
D. Older = better dogma.
E. It can not be found i.e. it is rare/scarce.
F. Relabeled and fake ones are on the market which creates the search for original ones at higher prices.
G. Selected versions were produced that created exclusivity already in their prime time.
H. Modern chips are judged by topology and measurements. TDA chips are judged by listening.
As many audio DIYers are middle aged males things as used in their youth were a lot better 🙂 Some time ago it were LP record players that were sworn to be better than CD. Now sources and parts have dried up people switched to classic CD players but mechs/lasers are hard if not impossible to find as well nowadays. When one invests time and money in a more recent DAC chip with well designed PSUs things can work out very well too. TDA1541A is just 16/44.1 after all. Time has moved on....
Recently I saw 1 piece of TDA1541A being offered for more than an excellent modern ready built and well tested/reviewed DAC costs . It is up to the potential buyer to make that choice. Please also mind that the external DAC approach so the 2 box solution is not as good as one likes to think. A DAC board IN a device performs often quite a bit better.
A. It can sound extremely good (with a lot of work).
B. It is hyped big time.
C. It has become expensive so it must be good.
D. Older = better dogma.
E. It can not be found i.e. it is rare/scarce.
F. Relabeled and fake ones are on the market which creates the search for original ones at higher prices.
G. Selected versions were produced that created exclusivity already in their prime time.
H. Modern chips are judged by topology and measurements. TDA chips are judged by listening.
As many audio DIYers are middle aged males things as used in their youth were a lot better 🙂 Some time ago it were LP record players that were sworn to be better than CD. Now sources and parts have dried up people switched to classic CD players but mechs/lasers are hard if not impossible to find as well nowadays. When one invests time and money in a more recent DAC chip with well designed PSUs things can work out very well too. TDA1541A is just 16/44.1 after all. Time has moved on....
Recently I saw 1 piece of TDA1541A being offered for more than an excellent modern ready built and well tested/reviewed DAC costs . It is up to the potential buyer to make that choice. Please also mind that the external DAC approach so the 2 box solution is not as good as one likes to think. A DAC board IN a device performs often quite a bit better.
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TDA1541A is just 16/44
As the datasheet shows, the TDA1541A can run at 16/96. For years I've run mine at 16/88.
The datasheet for the even older TDA1543 shows that, though also limited to 16 bits, it can run at 192KHz. I've not tried doing so.
One attraction of both chips is that they lend themselves to working in non-oversampling (NOS) mode which many - me, even - believe sounds better. Visit DDDAC.com for discussion and measurements on the issue though there's plenty good material elsewhere.
One big snag with the 1541 is that it uses three power lines (+/-5 & -15 volts). The 1543 uses +5v only but is relatively power hungry and measures poorly.
HTH
Dave
As the datasheet shows, the TDA1541A can run at 16/96. For years I've run mine at 16/88.
The datasheet for the even older TDA1543 shows that, though also limited to 16 bits, it can run at 192KHz. I've not tried doing so.
One attraction of both chips is that they lend themselves to working in non-oversampling (NOS) mode which many - me, even - believe sounds better. Visit DDDAC.com for discussion and measurements on the issue though there's plenty good material elsewhere.
One big snag with the 1541 is that it uses three power lines (+/-5 & -15 volts). The 1543 uses +5v only but is relatively power hungry and measures poorly.
HTH
Dave
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The 1541A can play up to 192 Khz in simultaneous mode protocole.
TD1541 (non A) up to 384 khz in simultaneous mode.
TD1541 (non A) up to 384 khz in simultaneous mode.
Mmm, with the nearly always present companion SAA7220 (the one not so loved...) that is of course. Still 16 bits though. In these days of high res audio one does not often see 16/96 or 16/192 material 🙂
It is a very good chip, friend of foe knows that. It is however slightly past due date with modern material and so many other nice outright affordable chips around (that are available from distributors). Had a lot of fun building DACs with TDA's though. The PSU requirements are indeed a snag and seeing how much energy and time is put in excellent PSU's one could ask oneself what can become of recent chips with such investments...
It is a very good chip, friend of foe knows that. It is however slightly past due date with modern material and so many other nice outright affordable chips around (that are available from distributors). Had a lot of fun building DACs with TDA's though. The PSU requirements are indeed a snag and seeing how much energy and time is put in excellent PSU's one could ask oneself what can become of recent chips with such investments...
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Ease of use. Power supplies aside, add a SPDIF rx and a two resistors and you have sound.
Тhat most definitely isn't it. A 1543 may be easy, but not a 1541. It takes plenty of parts, power supplies, love and caring for what it offers in return.
I agree with lots of effort requirement for TDA1541 to sound on elevated level , whatever it means to different people. After all ,all those early CD players sporting those chips sounded "unlistenable" harsh and flat some 25 years ago but somehow sitting on the shelves they matured like a good wine and now sound "organic and analog " compared to the crop of "inhumane" high res chips. Spectral transport opened my ears to the importance of a good drive in digital playback and Weiss DAC on how natural , and easy digital can sound. All of that using fairly cheap industrial parts in rather expensive products I cannot afford. I do like my Abbas 1541S1 tube dac though. It may not be all that if it comes to being a neutral source but it cannot be accused of being boring. I came to realization (better late than never) that "life is really too short" for boring Hi-Fi.
I've heard and used a lot of DACs but an optimised TDA1541A still can be the closest to a decent analogue front end I've come across. Not first for impact or pace, but beautiful textures, grainless micro detail with zero listening fatigue. Effortlessly natural. No smoke without fire!
Could you share with us which design it was? I got a feeling it was a tube output
Addition:
I. It is in DIL/through hole format so anyone can solder these chips (which is a big factor).
J. Since it is DIL and often in an IC socket one can change them for various selected versions and try out. A variant of tube/opamp rolling.
I. It is in DIL/through hole format so anyone can solder these chips (which is a big factor).
J. Since it is DIL and often in an IC socket one can change them for various selected versions and try out. A variant of tube/opamp rolling.
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At the moment I have ryanj`s D3 board with Thorsten Loesch's ECC88 output stage. A JLSounds USB to I2S is the interface configured in simultaneous mode.
The Chip sounds very good if you put a lot of effort in it, yes. But what is also very nice is that it gives you a lot of freedom from the design perspective. sim mode and dem clocking, no build in output stage, all possibilities to alter the sound in a direction YOU like.
At the Moment im using Ryan's D3 with tube output and its fed by 16/192Khz PC source with a reclocker. I like it very much. It sounds a lot like my PCM1794a setup, but a bit more smooth in the upper region. Perhaps it looses detail with this smoothness compared to the 1794a, but i like it, the newer chips are ofter a bit to "sterile" for me.
So its just your personal preference, but newer chips are also not "plug in and have fun", if you want to get something special out of them. My PCM1794a runs in NOS mode and it was also not so straight forward. Perhaps even a bit more complicated than the TDA1541A, but thanks to Doede Douma and his DDDAC project the chip runs NOS now.
At the Moment im using Ryan's D3 with tube output and its fed by 16/192Khz PC source with a reclocker. I like it very much. It sounds a lot like my PCM1794a setup, but a bit more smooth in the upper region. Perhaps it looses detail with this smoothness compared to the 1794a, but i like it, the newer chips are ofter a bit to "sterile" for me.
So its just your personal preference, but newer chips are also not "plug in and have fun", if you want to get something special out of them. My PCM1794a runs in NOS mode and it was also not so straight forward. Perhaps even a bit more complicated than the TDA1541A, but thanks to Doede Douma and his DDDAC project the chip runs NOS now.
Its decoupling cap choice was a hot topic back in the day when the chip was more affordable and popular. If i had a crack at that mod today i would go for smd c0g 1nf right at the chip legs to gnd plane but not poured under the chip, only around it.
Says you. A TDA1541A is most definitely easy. If you choose to pimp it out and go OTT that is your choice. Note there are not a lot of TDA1543A or Sony DF based dacs around.
Yes, The Jung kit I got had those Panasonic stacked film on a baby board as close as possible to the 1541.
There were plenty of Philips DAC with the TDA1543, fewer with the tda1545A.
Not easy at all, imho but since you understood few things about that chip (those chips as they sounds different from the begin ning to the late production according the plants and sorting out also) you have something ultimatly transparent, not smooth at all but not brigth at all at the same time, very dynamic with rythmic to die for. Still my reference.
There was an autoradio with two TDA1541A single crown... do not remember the brand.... Clarion maybe !
+1 for the external DEM element matching thingies and also the complex three voltages rails and complex grounding behavior !