Why exactly drivers built for guitars are bad idea for home HiFi Speakers?

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Pawel-Athens

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Joined 2022
#1
I was wondering why is this the case: specific reasons. For example, I read about great qualities of Alnico magnets, esp. in the bass region.
Celestion happens to have 12 inch driver which uses Alnico but its marketed for guitarists.

So why its generally not used in home audio?

I see that such drivers dont play that low for their size comparing to Hifi drivers? Is t true and is it the real reason?

The other thing Ive heard has something to do with surround stiffness and that Guitar (and PA) drivers sound poor at somewhat low SPL levels... again, true or rather not?

Subwoofer drivers with Neodymium are now quite expensive, but these Celestions are not that pricey, thats why I ask.

I will be grateful for your insights.
 
#2
Guitar amp drivers usually have low xmax and low power handling, further lots of uneven peaks in the frequency spectrum in various sound scape ideas. To get that 1kHz fuzz that guitar people like to make their ears bleed. Not at all optimal for hifi. They are usually stiff yes. So they can be mounted open back and play in smaller boxes without losing sensitivity. They are instruments. Not transparent. They could work decent for midbass 200-500hz in hifi but why make things complicated when you don’t have to. Another note a lot of guitar players now prefer flat response full range amps. These are usually two way coax with DSP and much better also for HiFi or PA wedge monitors. With this the artist can choose the “sound template” from the EQ effect box instead digitally instead of switching amps for every record session. Eeyyh technology. Neodymium in subs are usually much more powerful and complex die cast chassis with cooling vents and what not while guitar drivers are usually small neo magnets and light weight steel gaskets. It’s a different quality. Subs usually not only paper cones but more complex material that reduces sensitivity but also lower the resonance suitable for its application.
 
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#3
I bought some boutique 12 inch guitar woofers with alnico magnets to see what the differences are.

The magnets were much smaller than what one would see on a driver made for music reproduction and the cones were anything but stiff. They were so floppy it was impossible to imagine any kind of pistonic movement.

I did not even bother to use them since I intended to use them in a horn. Those cones could not stand the loading of a horn!
 
#4
From my readings of specific "guitar" drivers, I got the impression musicians choose driver "A', and not driver "B" because driver "A' is for, "the blues", and driver "B" is more for "Jazz".
The upshot is, its almost as if a musician chooses drivers as one would choose a Clarinet over an Oboe...hence the multitudes of descriptions like "A bluesy sounding driver".





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
 
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#5
Attached are typical guitar speaker frequency response curves, which kinda speak for themselves!
 

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#7
Guitar speakers are generally designed for high output in the frequency range of a guitar. Not too low or high but the usually have an emphasis on the hi range. They are not flat in frequency response at all. They give up lows for higher output in the upper range. Many have a distinct sound which they are famous for. That is what you don’t want in a hifi speaker. You really can’t use them in home speakers if you want it to sound like it should.
 
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#9
Thanks all for replies! Looking here at this Eminence driver...
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0270/8665/1462/files/Lil_Buddy.png
It looks like if it will work from 100Hz to 500-1000Hz, its not terrible, right?
I would have a separate driver for bass below 100Hz.
My goal is, I want to have the best possible tone, texture and sensitivity from 100hz to end of midrange, so about 3k.

Sure, many will say Lowther, but thats 800usd per unit. If could match such driver on Alnico which will go to 500-1khz with newest Scanspeak tweeter which can play as low as 500hz.... Wolf von Langa Son uses a similar approach just with more expensive drivers.
 
#10
Fs on that driver is 149Hz. By the time you install this driver in any sort of cab, it will put Fb in the 200s Hz range without even looking at TS parameters (which arent published). I think for the money there are better drivers out there to serve your needs. I would go with the PVR 10MB800FT. Its a great midbass driver with good efficiency, low Fs and a cast frame, plus its cheaper than that flimsy Eminemce.

https://prvaudio.com/products/10mb800ft/
 
#13
Only 16 ohms version of the lilbuddy is avialable today with unluckilly less easy spl response to work with.
Another good illustration of such bass drivers used in hifi is Bastanis Loudspeakers with treated Emminence cones in OB conf as Gozilla blog above.
 
#14
 
#17
Lilbuddy is a midrange for sure. But only a few octaves. I’m sure there are better ones out there. I bought a 5” Fane midrange some time ago. Haven’t really tested it yet, can’t wait to. Anyway now that you know to stay away from guitar drivers start a new thread on your search midrange advice.
 
#18
In my main listening room I have :
DIY
1) Ariels mtm -Vifa P13wh & Scan Speak D2905/9500
2) DIY open baffle Polk MC60 Ceiling speakers
3) Monsoon Planar Computer speakers with passive subs (the controller died)
4) DIY Bookshelf speakers with Radio Shack 40-1354a AUTO speakers + 1 ufd cap on the tweeter

http://nutshellhifi.com/Ariel.html
https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/polkingfun/3.html
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649183063-monsoon-planarmedia-9-pc-speakers/images/923847/
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147103.0

1 out of 4 of my speakers (Ariels) is Hi-Fi (?). I like them all.
 
#19
I think a key difference is that audio drivers have much more damping to get a smoother response curve. Compare the Qms and moving mass of a guitar speaker and an audio woofer, they are generally quite different. The guitar speaker may have more low level detail because of the reduced mechanical damping but may also have more peaks and valleys. The lighter cone may reduce the low bass response but could result in higher efficiency. Everything is a tradeoff. Obviously guitar drivers are not commonly used in hi-fi, I would guess that most people will not accept the compromises.
 
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