Thanks bro. I will send that track to my streaming device.
I have found that youtube audio can often have subsonic trash. Even with my steep (36 dB/octave) high pass filter it can generate trash if it's bad enough.
But I realized since I posted on this topic that it's actually Perfect Circle (another Maynard band) that gives my amp fits. Even with the high pass filter it sounds like a 747 landing with the fans running. After doing some experimentation with cascading boost filters to get speaker compensation filters to better match the performance objectives, I realized that the music was produced with 12 dB/octave boost on some tracks (like the bass) and all tracks on every cut are heavily colored to get a fat sound. This greatly increases the power requirements, which explains why my amp huffs and puffs and the fans sound like a 747 landing in the shop. Reproducing these productions full frequency at high spl takes lots of power, just like a lot of dance music tracks that pro DJs use.
dbx Pro did not require any alignment with a tape tone, like Dolby. It was, as I recall, a straight compress/expand at 2:1 ratio at all frequencies and with no preset threshold voltage, unlike Dolby A, which used four separate frequency bands and a threshold signal voltage for each band. Thus, as a theoretical matter dbx was much more tolerant of recording session vagaries.I found in re-mastering old 1/4" master /copy master tapes to DAT, that one of the biggest problems
was masters encoded with DBX & Dolby A.
The simple reference level tone was not always enough for a good transfer. The worst cases I found were Dolby A.
After obviously determining IEC / NAB EQ , there were occasions where PRE-DECODING equalization was needed
to solve 'tonal balance pumping'. This is quite different to post decoding test-tone alignment.
After DBX entered the SEMI-PRO domain, it turned out that there was a total of 3 different decoders to pick from,
you just had to find the right one
( I think after hearing different pressings of some identical albums, remastering requires a passion plus 'golden ears' )
Yes, the semi-pro and consumer dbx stuff became more complex in product lineup and theory of operation. As a typical consumer, the single-ended noise reduction units of Burwen, Carver and Phase Linear were much more appealing to me but never bought them because of $$$$.
The problem with the Katy Lied recording sessions appeared to be within the dbx electronics itself. If that happened to me, I'd be livid. Doing amateur recording, I know it is already a stressful environment. To have your equipment "silently fail" for no fault of one's own, well that would drive me bonkers.
Not really the “worst” recorded album i own but perhaps the most disappointingly mastered would be Lou Reed’s self-titled debut record. Apparently Dolby noise reduction was mistakenly during mastering when it hadn’t been used during recording. The sonic result is a lifeless and rolled-off presentation some otherwise great songs.
I have several boxed sets of LPs recorded extremely well in the UK ... BUT pressed in China for the Chinese domestic market. The vinyl is full of hard granules
and these records are unplayable other than with a ceramic pu at about 10Gms tracking force!!! These records are from the late 50s/early 60s.
and these records are unplayable other than with a ceramic pu at about 10Gms tracking force!!! These records are from the late 50s/early 60s.
Well...I'm not sure that you've got the time to hear the various dimensions of how it gets bad--because there are many "worst recorded albums" in my experience.
Since I was a pretty small guy listening to phonograph records and reel-to-reel, I've always heard issues with recordings--either because of high noise floor issues, the various forms of distortion put there during the music production process, or from "creative mastering". The worst that I've personally come up against can be found here: Little Shop Of Horrors Original Soundtrack
Apparently someone forgot to undo the RIAA curve on this CD from the vinyl master. The good news is that when demastering EQ is applied to correct this mistake, it sounds pretty entertaining: in other words, I can listen to it now.
Another one of dubious note--that actually got me started demastering my own CD tracks: The Gist Of The Gemini
This was badly done from a mastering standpoint. I'm not sure what exactly got it into the state it's in--but I couldn't listen to it.
As I understand the situation, most of the carnage of recorded music on digital discs apparently goes with translation of the downmix into whatever they end up plunking onto compact discs (ostensibly to make them sound "better" on really bad loudspeakers that a lot of people apparently own). The result of course is that the music tracks end up sounding bad on really good loudspeakers/setups.
Something can be done to get around this "one size fits all" mastering mentality. So I pulled out Audacity and started to learn how to do something about it. You can read about those early attempts here:
The Missing Octave(s) - Audacity Remastering to Restore Tracks
That was ~10 years ago (and after ~10k+ hours doing something, you tend to get pretty good at it). Things are a lot different now in my CD music collection (all the music I've ripped to FLAC from the ~2000 original discs that's still on the shelf). For most of these, I've undone a greater portion of the mastering issues (that are able to be undone).
Probably the most interesting thing I've stumbled onto is the effect of phase distortion of loudspeakers and music tracks--and what that sounds like. I've found that once you clean up early acoustic reflections in-room and employ loudspeakers having good full-range directivity control (and inaudible compression and modulation distortion), you begin to hear reproduced music in ways that you never thought you would be able to hear.
Chris
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Reading history of making this album, you are right. It was almost pitched.
Nope! I recently tracked down a vinyl copy. Very disappointing for such a great album.
And yet, it's surprisingly liked by some. I have an early Canadian pressing that destroys it, so it's just the mastering, not the recording. Pretty sure it's not the only toad from mofi. Many of the early titles got the "smiley face" EQ thanks to Stan.
jeff
An Australia LP re-issue of the excellent "Who's Next". The groove was cut very narrow so that the songs finished about two inches from the run out, instead of where they had on my original copy, which went AWOL at a party.
Thin disc, thin sound with poor bass and even the cover looked dull. It ended up in the charity bin for some other poor person to find. Replaced with a UK pressing which cost a few $ more but sounded as it should have.
Geoff
Thin disc, thin sound with poor bass and even the cover looked dull. It ended up in the charity bin for some other poor person to find. Replaced with a UK pressing which cost a few $ more but sounded as it should have.
Geoff
I won a fevered eBay bid off and won. Then read reviews. Who would have thunk it!?
Similarly, I have a few old copies that beat the pants off of it.
Lou Reed: "Metal Machine Music". Got it as a present in the mid seventies.
I think this double lp was recorded without any instrument and very ugly by design.
No longer own it. When I replaced my vinyl collection, luckily I could not find the digital version.
I heard it was taken off the market.
I think this double lp was recorded without any instrument and very ugly by design.
No longer own it. When I replaced my vinyl collection, luckily I could not find the digital version.
I heard it was taken off the market.
It is only a “joke” because a remastering engineer may choose to add additional dynamic processing (e.g. compression, but in a multiband manner), additional EQ, noise reduction (hopefully digital rather than simple analogue. And perhaps othe processing tricks.
Fundamentally, however, the remastering engineer may have to make artistic judgements for tape sources that were originally mastered on tape for vinyl. People don’t seem to understand that “master tapes” oftentimes were either produced to account for limits of vinyl (e.g., low cut filtering or additional high frequency boost apart from RIAA). Or the master tape was produced with the understanding that the cutting engineer woul make additional EQ adjustments and so was mixed “flat” to allow final adjustment by the cutting engineer.
Simply taking a “master tape” from 50s, 60s and 70s and doing the A/D conversion flat may not reflect what was intended by the artist/micdown/mastering engineer. It is an art as well as requiring incredible amount of experience and expertise to remaster old analogue tapes.
I would mention that the A/D converters today are better than the converters when many CD masters were originally created (esp those in the first 10 years of the CD.
Finally, although this occurs first in time, there may be much better tape research done to locate the best available master tapes available, which may or may not be the safety! After all, if the original master tape is repeatedly rolled across heads, there is an inevitable loss of oxide and quality. The safety master may ultimately be in better shape.
I think that an outstanding job in remastering requires many things to go right, and the involvement of experienced professionals with excellent critical and artistic judgement. And this requires $$$ and a commitment to achieving the best possible product.
In sum, I do not think that all remastering jobbs are “jokes.” Others may have different views, however.
Fundamentally, however, the remastering engineer may have to make artistic judgements for tape sources that were originally mastered on tape for vinyl. People don’t seem to understand that “master tapes” oftentimes were either produced to account for limits of vinyl (e.g., low cut filtering or additional high frequency boost apart from RIAA). Or the master tape was produced with the understanding that the cutting engineer woul make additional EQ adjustments and so was mixed “flat” to allow final adjustment by the cutting engineer.
Simply taking a “master tape” from 50s, 60s and 70s and doing the A/D conversion flat may not reflect what was intended by the artist/micdown/mastering engineer. It is an art as well as requiring incredible amount of experience and expertise to remaster old analogue tapes.
I would mention that the A/D converters today are better than the converters when many CD masters were originally created (esp those in the first 10 years of the CD.
Finally, although this occurs first in time, there may be much better tape research done to locate the best available master tapes available, which may or may not be the safety! After all, if the original master tape is repeatedly rolled across heads, there is an inevitable loss of oxide and quality. The safety master may ultimately be in better shape.
I think that an outstanding job in remastering requires many things to go right, and the involvement of experienced professionals with excellent critical and artistic judgement. And this requires $$$ and a commitment to achieving the best possible product.
In sum, I do not think that all remastering jobbs are “jokes.” Others may have different views, however.
I've lost count of the number of re-masters, re-re-masters, re-re-re-masters etc of Hendrix CDs, it's got really silly.
Some have been hissy, some too heavy handed with noise reduction, some excellent; it just makes buying some of them confusing and expensive. Some claim to be from the 'original' master tapes, but the following re-master of the re-master says only their is from the originals, blah blah. Then there are the re-mixes, just to confuse things even more.
At least the music is good enough to survive all this.
Geoff
Recording standards in pop/rock are pretty high nowadays - polished and a lot of production. What was a Nirvana record is nowadays a band demo in terms of loudness and sound quality (not in terms of playing sadly ;-)).
Bringing older music with a lot of feeling and some knowledge to this level is a great thing! Not always achieved with this remastering ... but some are really good!
Now we just need the music standards also beeing as high ...
You never listened to unmastered music, did you? It's not about crushing everything to max loudness (ok, it SHOULD not be). It starts with track titles, fades and pause time between tracks. Prepare the music for the medium it will be transfered at (nowadays streaming, vinyl, CD). And give it the final touch to cut through the sea of songs around you.
At least that's what it should be. Sometimes they just press the CD Version on Vinyl (but that's rare, most sound pretty different). But at least streaming eases the pressure of being louder than the rest a lot.
I have heard unmastered music before.? It should depend on the type of music ,and how they ,who are in charge of that process want it to sound like. Some fine tuning and correction ,bringing the energy out of the music ,which is one of the most important ones and presentation. By using a reference with similar style or sound. I know all that which you have described. It was tongue and cheek. Give us the unmastered version on a reel to reel.😀
Not all mastering engineers are the same. Btw it’s not up to the engineers anyway. It’s up to the people who own the band or music a lot now. They will ruin your record to make it louder and they have done. It’s out of the musicians hands once they’ve done their bit.
What I’m saying is to leave music alone. There’s nothing wrong with it. People enjoyed it for what it was when it was mastered before. It has a certain character to it which you remember.
That’s just my opinion on it. Some may agree some not.
Cheers 🙂
Not all mastering engineers are the same. Btw it’s not up to the engineers anyway. It’s up to the people who own the band or music a lot now. They will ruin your record to make it louder and they have done. It’s out of the musicians hands once they’ve done their bit.
What I’m saying is to leave music alone. There’s nothing wrong with it. People enjoyed it for what it was when it was mastered before. It has a certain character to it which you remember.
That’s just my opinion on it. Some may agree some not.
Cheers 🙂
