That's my mistake, I agree.
Sowter may be fantastic, but like many Lundahl, or other more exotic makes, seem poor value - just because I can't or won't pay for them.
Hammond seem an OK step down, for a slight loss in performance, but not "value" still.
Edcor seem better value to me, even with import duty (either from USA or EU).
Certainly the pair of small SET OPT I bought used from a DIYA member have been pretty good value, both cost and performance has been reasonable.
(I think they were by Ask Jan First)
I'd probably go Edcor for my next build.
Edcor delivery charges outside the USA are extortionate. About twice the USA shipping charge! Last time I checked FedEx was about half the estimated cost of USPS but Edcor will only use USPS. Why? Just seems not really intent on serving customers. Maybe selling audio stuff to DIYers isn't worth the bother to them.
S.
S.
There was a time when the european nations conquered the world and nothing could have stopped them. They had the power, the technology and people to rule the world- especially the british empire.Fact is,-the BBC actually did work and set standards which are used by the whole of Europe today.
Again it was on the back of British made inventions, and British made hardware which was (& often still is the the envy of Europe, and in some cases the world.
Those times are long gone, today, europe is just a small part of the worlds economy with China as the leading big player, the US as the last empire and the majority of people living in third world regions.
Sowter certainly isn't the cutting edge in audio transformer design, there are far more advanced designs being manufactured, mostly in asia today.
We have to accept that the biggest part in good transformer building is labour and that is too expensive to day in the first world for still producing excellent transformers there. In the end, one gets what one pays for and if your not willing to pay premium prices for manufacturing premium products with a high part of expensive labour, you probably receive mediocre build transformers. Lundahl has a highly automated production line and can wind good transformers with the style it was done yersterdays, Sowter isn't any longer capable of, because labour is much too expensive to wind transformers that cost less than 100 bucks. No one doesn layer winding by hand for that price today. You can get those transformers still, but have to pay a much higher price. And thats too much for most of the DIY community, because a transformer is only one part of the whole gear, and if that one part does cost more than the rest, most have to go and cut costs on that part. So they end in using cheap, less labour intensive production transformers. And that means less quality today.
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And UPS and FedEx are both going to hit you with their profit making 'brokerage' fees when you bring anything into Canada. I try for US Post whenever possible, but many companies won't ship that way.
Stay away from COVID/Politics. Posts removed.I understand you have never bought A Sowter transformer.
Your opinion of the Chinese is much inflated.
I have yet to see any item from PRC that comes remotely close to the quality of even the partridge clones from Italy, or my replicas from the USA.
I have even there and worked in PRC.
It was frightening, and we went on their buses, trains & planes to every major city in China.
When you add up the cost of constant replacement of disgustingly bad quality parts from PRC, it's time to look for something maybe double the price but doesn't break down.
I just tested a DAC from Cayin the other day, a piece of junk.
Jitter all over the place and phase shifts from one to the other of the audio spectrum.
Idem another chinese hi end audio part which had to have the tubes replaced, then the mother board twice in under a year.
All the above is only your opinion.
Have you actually talked to the guy on the phone?
It's very much like the crowd all selling valves in the same town in Sussex.
They know their stuff.
I buy smart.
The ex-USSR is often the best place, because they have far more experience with mil tech than anyone in PRC.
Now they are doing stuff at prices people could only dream of.
I am completely satisfied with a beautiful 0.75Kw step down transformer which was made 30yrs ago,and cost me 4 EURO.
Idem the beautiful wound to order Toroid I bought in Poland at christmas. Made to measure, delivered to my door for 125 EURO.
Indel do stuff which is also top quality, and that's only 2 in Poland.
It's cheaper and 10x better than PRC, and if it goes wrong I get another sent in the post within a week.
Maybe you should go visit them some day?
It's only on your say-so.
Being as you never bought one, the credibility isn't there.
Sarcastic1:
RIP Rupert Neve
Steve Morley:
Which period of his work are you interested in?
For the 'classics' ( 80XX consoles: 1073,1081,...) the transformers used were Marinair.
Pn 10468 for mic in
Pn 31267 for line in
Pn LO1166 for output.
Good luck finding one and be ready to sell a kidney.
For Focusrite consoles:
Lundahl 1538 (xl? Maybe not, they are visible in the video i linked in the RIP thread so check for yourself) for mic input
For output he used a toroidal ( with tertiary winding for feedback around the opamp out stage ) build by Carnhill. It was availlable 15y ago as a spare part, i asked them two time first time it was ok to buy if i had a serial number for the unit, last time they just told me the part didn't exist... buy a second hand Red unit they use it too.
As far as i know this is the same transformer used as output into Amek9098 but the circuit was a little bit different than the one he used with Focusrite units ( it was in the 9098 eq preamp rack).
For his most recent work i don't know if he used transformers and which one.
Neve was in constant research for 'less colored' pristine audio path and that may have made him not look at transformers at one point ( i think, not sure as i never opened a RND unit and i know galvanic isolation was something he favoured).
RIP Rupert Neve
Steve Morley:
Which period of his work are you interested in?
For the 'classics' ( 80XX consoles: 1073,1081,...) the transformers used were Marinair.
Pn 10468 for mic in
Pn 31267 for line in
Pn LO1166 for output.
Good luck finding one and be ready to sell a kidney.
For Focusrite consoles:
Lundahl 1538 (xl? Maybe not, they are visible in the video i linked in the RIP thread so check for yourself) for mic input
For output he used a toroidal ( with tertiary winding for feedback around the opamp out stage ) build by Carnhill. It was availlable 15y ago as a spare part, i asked them two time first time it was ok to buy if i had a serial number for the unit, last time they just told me the part didn't exist... buy a second hand Red unit they use it too.
As far as i know this is the same transformer used as output into Amek9098 but the circuit was a little bit different than the one he used with Focusrite units ( it was in the 9098 eq preamp rack).
For his most recent work i don't know if he used transformers and which one.
Neve was in constant research for 'less colored' pristine audio path and that may have made him not look at transformers at one point ( i think, not sure as i never opened a RND unit and i know galvanic isolation was something he favoured).
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Simply wrong.
If you had read my posts in this thread (what you obviously not have, but claiming me to write about a topic I have no knowledge of), you could have read that I have deconstructed a Sowter transformer (cost me 100 bucks, but I'm glad having done it).
I have purchased, owned and auditioned some of their audio signal transformers and PSU transformers in the last decade to be able to judge about their quality.
And I have looked at their model range to see what their "quality" is all about. They are for sure just middle class what their sound and windings belongs.
If your talking about the chinese, interesting enough, there is not one company that made it to the quality of the top performers.
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Again, not having read the whole story, you came here to question the practical experiences of others.
Go, read the whole story before posting.
Reading, understanding, posting. Thats my recommendation. It will give your posts more credibility.
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Sowter make very good transformers. They have a rather big catalogue and make all sorts of transformers from the simple/cheap one to some types that one will simply NOT find in any other audio transformer manufacturer catalogue except Tamura.
I don't think they can be compared to Lundahl or other brands like this. Cheaper or more commercial ones just forget it....
If you are still unsure please find me ANY audio transformers manufacturer that can offer: all sorts of line/input/bridge/phase-splitting transformers, transformer volume control in various flavours, insterstage both bifilar and non-bifilar, ANY output transformer (if not in catalogue, on request), vintage high quality replicas and all the PSU stuff you want....plus anything you might desire. Of course something on request cannot be cheap.
I think people see EI cores and think it's cheap or not great quality but that's wrong. The core is absolutely not what makes the cost because the main cost of a transformer is labour....
The best Hi-B double C cores one can find on the market make 10% MAX of the cost of a true high quality transformer. More exotic materials maybe a bit more but always a small fraction of their cost.
I don't think they can be compared to Lundahl or other brands like this. Cheaper or more commercial ones just forget it....
If you are still unsure please find me ANY audio transformers manufacturer that can offer: all sorts of line/input/bridge/phase-splitting transformers, transformer volume control in various flavours, insterstage both bifilar and non-bifilar, ANY output transformer (if not in catalogue, on request), vintage high quality replicas and all the PSU stuff you want....plus anything you might desire. Of course something on request cannot be cheap.
I think people see EI cores and think it's cheap or not great quality but that's wrong. The core is absolutely not what makes the cost because the main cost of a transformer is labour....
The best Hi-B double C cores one can find on the market make 10% MAX of the cost of a true high quality transformer. More exotic materials maybe a bit more but always a small fraction of their cost.
^ Cinemag will do what you describe about Sowter.
On order/request design is probably a thing of the past with Sowter now.
I contacted them about some ref they don't have on offer anymore and where Brian was ok to make them 2 years ago my question get politely refused some 10 month ago. Maybe it is only covid related but my experience with Carnhill let me think the golden days are past for Sowter ( i hope i am wrong though).
For what i know Brian is now a consultant to Sowter.
On order/request design is probably a thing of the past with Sowter now.
I contacted them about some ref they don't have on offer anymore and where Brian was ok to make them 2 years ago my question get politely refused some 10 month ago. Maybe it is only covid related but my experience with Carnhill let me think the golden days are past for Sowter ( i hope i am wrong though).
For what i know Brian is now a consultant to Sowter.
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Yes exactly.
You never auditioned their outstandingly good, large hi-power Push-pull output transformers.
They sure as anything don't cost 100bucks,- more like 500..
I am still using NOS stuff.
I have a couple of monster Partridge units (from the 200W guitar amps), linear from 10hz - 50hz absolutely flat.
One is brand new, the other probably good for another 20yrs.
They are basically the equivalent of the UTC LS range.
Nobody has yet beaten either.
The Partridge mains transformer is a beast, and I still haven't a clue what to do with it.
I'm sure the Sowter output and large HT trannies are just as good as Partridge 'cos they go to the trouble of quoting figures, and 30yrs from now you will find either of them working like on day 1.
I have been lucky with Parmeko, they made outstanding HT transformers. (and the company didn't close that long ago).
I was also lucky enough to have acquired a couple of their 10V CT heater transformers, for you can guess to build what, with (!) a 1.8kV, 1Kw ex navy ship, ship to shore radio HT transfo beast.
The British are like their F1 motorsport,- still top dog for the best you can get from aero engines,& soon small nuclear reactors to designing the world's most popular chip (it's in just about everything from smartphones to TVs).
It's basically still possible to get a lot of best quality stuff done on the island but barring a few miracles, always a total PIA.
Ask me how I know.
Very good is a relative term.
From your perspective and application, they may be "very good".
But the quality of transformers dosn't depend on having a wide offering or big catalogue. Even it has nothing to do with making customs.
I know of many companies in former times who wound better than Sowter. Better designs, more specialised transformers, advanced winding techniques. And which never had done customs for private persons. Of course, they did for professionals with the big orders. But not for individuals DIY market with an order or one or two.
But that seems over now.
We cannot expect someone today to perform layer winding by hand of complex winding structures for, lets say $100 or even less (and preferable this all includes calculation for custom orders in the region of two transformers). I know that some cheapskates wish for that, but it won't happen.
If you don't pay a price, you most often get nearly nothing. And you'll find always someone who does it much cheaper, but not better.
To find someone who can do it better, thats the task.
If they are good enough for your applications, thats fine.
You will always find someone who states "a VW Beetle is good enough for me".
For me, its not good enough, because they are just average. And the proof was in deconstruction, listening and achieving knowledge.
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But what you see in the catalogue is still available which is plenty enough. Cinemag? Never heard of transformer volume control by Cinemag. There is always something missing....that's what I meant.
Sowter, at the moment, is still a very good supplier with a lot of experience.
But I don't konw if in the future, with a news of the last time, they stay at the same level.
I hope, also because I start with the stuff in the photo.
The LCR stage for a Phono.
In kit
Soon two different topology of LCR phono stage, in addition.
Walter
But I don't konw if in the future, with a news of the last time, they stay at the same level.
I hope, also because I start with the stuff in the photo.
The LCR stage for a Phono.
In kit
Soon two different topology of LCR phono stage, in addition.
Walter
Attachments
Well for the one in which i have interest it is not totally true for Sowter ( i'm more into prostuff). Hopefully this could resume once we go back to something more regular about global situation.
Cinemag have inverse situation they have way more products than what they list. Even some products which are the same that some competitors ( Reichenbach which was their previous name worked for an other well known American manufacturer whose name start by J.).
Contact them and ask if what you need exist, they are very friendly and offer advice and all. Not very different from Sowter ime. And the quality is on par ( even if with their own sound) for the one i used ( tube mic out transformers, pro line in and some tube/daop pro line out).
Don't take me wrong i really like Sowter's products and will be very annoyed if they disappear as custom for individual but as i already said i fear this is what'll happen.
If ever no more arguments are there, its good to make an unproven claim against someone.
I have to prove something for you? What do you dream at midnight?
You don't need to prove anything more. You just did answer my question with no answer. QED