No worries, I am not criticizing Cinemag as well and they surely make good stuff and possibly they have more competitive prices just as a consequence of number of sales....
Anytime someone speaks about "competitive prices", cheap prices really are being meant. Budget prices.
Maybe you understand, whats being made by highly skilled people and is very time consuming work can never be cheap.
Look at those great transformers and their prices in ancient times. Do you think they were cheap, compared to today?
There was always a decision to buy pro or consumer gear parts.
"Competitive prices" are only possible with machine winding. Because thats real cheap compared to manual hand winding.
You will better search in the consumer gear section, as they have the most "competitive= cheap" prices.
Maybe you understand, whats being made by highly skilled people and is very time consuming work can never be cheap.
Look at those great transformers and their prices in ancient times. Do you think they were cheap, compared to today?
There was always a decision to buy pro or consumer gear parts.
"Competitive prices" are only possible with machine winding. Because thats real cheap compared to manual hand winding.
You will better search in the consumer gear section, as they have the most "competitive= cheap" prices.
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In fact, there is no such thing as raw material shortage existing.
After Brexit, Sowter have to pay higher prices due to tax conditions if they or their supplier buys raw materials in foreign countries like the EU. That problem is therefore homemade and I expect them to have a price increase shortly.
Like I stated before, for the transformer deconstructed by me, it just needs a very short time to teach someone how to wind it. If he (or she) can work with an automated or semi automated winding machine, at the same time the work could be executed because for random winding on a bobbin, you just need to put an adhesive tape over the coil after the exact turns have been wound. This is work for people with lowest qualification, and for that kind of work you will find hundreds of people if you just pay a good salary. I expect them to do that, with them having not really a discount pricing.
After Brexit, Sowter have to pay higher prices due to tax conditions if they or their supplier buys raw materials in foreign countries like the EU. That problem is therefore homemade and I expect them to have a price increase shortly.
Like I stated before, for the transformer deconstructed by me, it just needs a very short time to teach someone how to wind it. If he (or she) can work with an automated or semi automated winding machine, at the same time the work could be executed because for random winding on a bobbin, you just need to put an adhesive tape over the coil after the exact turns have been wound. This is work for people with lowest qualification, and for that kind of work you will find hundreds of people if you just pay a good salary. I expect them to do that, with them having not really a discount pricing.
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That comment is sheer speculation on your part, - let's say rather typical of the "continentals" who don't have a clue.
I haven't heard of any raw material problems whatsoever for Rolls Royce, JCB or F1, Cosworth, Federal Mogul, etc which are some of the highest consumers of high quality metal in the UK.
Maybe you were referring to recycled or scrap metal, which is what the Chinese are using in most of their cars, trains, buses, motorways, transformers, boats, and military.
Even their one and only aircraft carrier is scrap metal.
(the rusty old thing they bought from Ukraine).
Btw nobody mentioned Jensen in all this!
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^I thought my comment about Reichenbach would be obvious to anyone into transformers...
If you haven't had difficulties to source electronic components atm you are very lucky! Please give me the way you do!
Not my experience: 'That' vca and input driver/ receivers are in shortage almost everywhere, some industry have issues about sourcing components ( there was recently info about automobile industry planing shuting down plants because of shortage of electronic components,...)...
I'm located very close to UK but it seems it is in a different universe from comments i read!
If you haven't had difficulties to source electronic components atm you are very lucky! Please give me the way you do!
Not my experience: 'That' vca and input driver/ receivers are in shortage almost everywhere, some industry have issues about sourcing components ( there was recently info about automobile industry planing shuting down plants because of shortage of electronic components,...)...
I'm located very close to UK but it seems it is in a different universe from comments i read!
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Why should I refer to recycled or scrap metal, is it that what you think Sowter is in need for its transformers?
You say, other companies in the UK have no problems with sourcing parts or raw materials, but the continentals have no clue about the situation in GB.
Isn't it the exact same what I wrote?
And why should someone mention Jensen in a Sowter thread?
They are on the same price price level and obviously that means they are comparable to Sowter.
With CineMag, even that company is comparable with Sowter.
Well the exit is done, isnt it?
Certainly, here, there seems to be no issue getting steel at all (I dont work for Rolls Royce, but we manufacture in the same scale and supply BAE, Siemens and other large industry.)
The stockpiling of Neodymium a few years back by the chinese, had a huge effect on prices - I think they doubled overnight.
Certainly, here, there seems to be no issue getting steel at all (I dont work for Rolls Royce, but we manufacture in the same scale and supply BAE, Siemens and other large industry.)
The stockpiling of Neodymium a few years back by the chinese, had a huge effect on prices - I think they doubled overnight.
Why should anyone mention anything in that case?
Fact is, on the product front they are not comparable.
There was an extremely interesting thread on exactly this topic some months ago on another site, comparing the effects of different small signal transformers in a critical point in mixing desks.
It does appear each manufacturer is known most for their individual niche, whether they are Cornhill, Jensen, Sowter, Cinemag or Lundahl.
It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise, just as it's ridiculous to assume Brexit or unit labour costs will have any effect on a product, when a market has narrowed due to something outside of its control...
However when one manufacturer is especially known for something they do very well, and gets bought out by another that is known for specialising in something very different, it's fair comment to wonder what happens after.
(I could think of Opel being bought by Peugeot, which hasn't played out yet, or say the disastrous merger of Compaq, HP and DEC).
Because of above situation, I decided to take a plunge recently and order some small signal transformers from a tiny maker in Russia, for the output end of a DAC.
In that case I am prepared to experiment, take the risks, and each time do exhaustive measurements, compared with a solid state buffer.
All the stale old arguments come back to "horses for courses", which is why I would come back to a British company to make me a 450W high grade output transformer, with 5kv isolation and go nowhere else. (it would probably be on the personal recommendation of John Chambers)
I don't need to do that, for something smaller and less expensive.
Why should anyone mention anything in that case?
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
Its very clear that the topic here is about Sowter transformers.
If you want to experiment with uncertain results, its like gambling in a casino.
You will never know what, if and when you receive anything.
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
Its very clear that the topic here is about Sowter transformers.
If you want to experiment with uncertain results, its like gambling in a casino.
You will never know what, if and when you receive anything.
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I didn't notice this interesting thread; you are correct about Sowter, they make functional replacements but don't fiddle doing it like it was done in original. Their 1290 output, supposed copy of UTC A-24, doesn't even have same type of core, let alone materials, winding is also simplified. I see this done in most pro audio transformers (all we opened, about 5, the rest is obvious because external case is smaller than original laminations...). I hope they pay workers as well as they charge because 150eur 1-2W line out trafo has less than 20eur of material in it.
We never tried amp outputs, they might be better although i'm pretty sure nowhere near Partridge if they can be judged by what they do for pro audio.
Cinemag and Jensen are much better but one must know how original was winded and send the files. I've seen some great Japanese stuff although very, very expensive for no apperant reason, except maybe payed commercials which don't influence the sound. China is not there yet but let's hope it will be.
Someone wrote BBC set audio standards in use today. This is not truth, Germany did it and yes, we still use them today. Think of 20Hz-20kHz response and many other.
I understand the Sowter factory is no more. I believe some staff moved to Oxford but many chose not to go. Some wanted to buy the old machinery and set up themselves but were not allowed to. Brian still acts as a consultant but I don't know for how long. My personal experience with Carnhill small signal transformers has also been poor when it comes to the mechanics of the enclosure.
Carnhill have absorbed both OEP and Sowter.
Cheers
Ian
Carnhill have absorbed both OEP and Sowter.
Cheers
Ian
This news are not good, we will probably loose 80 years of Sowter's experiences if many workers chose not to go Oxford and were not allowed to buy machinery. If they won't make it no one else will, kapitalism at its finest.
I agree about problematic mounting of Carnhill transformers, another thing is they don't make various outputs with Ni cores. We still got the usual suspect for high quality transformers, i'm sure others will join too.
I agree about problematic mounting of Carnhill transformers, another thing is they don't make various outputs with Ni cores. We still got the usual suspect for high quality transformers, i'm sure others will join too.
Just saw on Sowter's site they are no longer offering custom transformers, at all. First it was no custom mains, now it seems no custom work outright.
That is very sad.
Just before the takeover, Brian helped me with custom mains and output transformers for my 801A amp. The mains transformers has a B+ secondary, a bias supply secondary, a heater winding, and two separate filament supply windings for the 801A, all shielded, probably one of the last custom mains transformers made. Output transformers are 5K:8ohm designed specifically for this amplifier. Very honestly could not have made this amplifier without his help, very grateful for it, but makes it all the more distressing to know that service no longer exists. I've picked up some texts, probably will begin the arduous task of learning to wind my own transformers for the future, have to start somewhere.
That is very sad.
Just before the takeover, Brian helped me with custom mains and output transformers for my 801A amp. The mains transformers has a B+ secondary, a bias supply secondary, a heater winding, and two separate filament supply windings for the 801A, all shielded, probably one of the last custom mains transformers made. Output transformers are 5K:8ohm designed specifically for this amplifier. Very honestly could not have made this amplifier without his help, very grateful for it, but makes it all the more distressing to know that service no longer exists. I've picked up some texts, probably will begin the arduous task of learning to wind my own transformers for the future, have to start somewhere.
I don't know if you are looking at the same announcement I saw but about a year ago they said they were only making a limited range of transformers because of material and staff shortages due to the pandemic. Many years ago Carnhill purchased St Ives windings and that production line still runs. Sowter is also based in St. Ives so maybe they just moved production across town?
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
I sent them a fairly easy question (I think) a month ago, and then again 2 weeks ago - and did not get an answer.
I don´t know if I am sidetracking this thread, but I have some sets of Sowter 3603z 600:600R bridge transformers.
I want to use a set between my DAC and preamp, and made some initial measurements. My generator has an
output impedance of 50R.
They look very good when loading the transformer with 200R - 1 K, but they shows severe ringing at around 100
KHz, when loading them with 10K (the input impedance of the preamp).
I thought a Zobel would fix the problem, and have tried with 12.5K in series with 100 pF, and 12.5K in series with
100 nF on the secondary winding, but none of those showed any positive results.
Will I be able to fix this issue? And how do I do it?
Best regards
Arthur.
I don´t know if I am sidetracking this thread, but I have some sets of Sowter 3603z 600:600R bridge transformers.
I want to use a set between my DAC and preamp, and made some initial measurements. My generator has an
output impedance of 50R.
They look very good when loading the transformer with 200R - 1 K, but they shows severe ringing at around 100
KHz, when loading them with 10K (the input impedance of the preamp).
I thought a Zobel would fix the problem, and have tried with 12.5K in series with 100 pF, and 12.5K in series with
100 nF on the secondary winding, but none of those showed any positive results.
Will I be able to fix this issue? And how do I do it?
Best regards
Arthur.
Hi Arthur,
Why not read datasheet?
https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/3603.php
"The pre amp should have an output impedance up to 600 Ohms. The load can be any value equal or greater than 600 Ohms."
The 600:600 transformer would be ringing without proper source and load impedance, mostly if the load too large.
Try not greater than -summarized- 600R source and 640R load, with the paralleled 10k -input impedance of preamp- the load will be about 600R.
Why not read datasheet?
https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/3603.php
"The pre amp should have an output impedance up to 600 Ohms. The load can be any value equal or greater than 600 Ohms."
The 600:600 transformer would be ringing without proper source and load impedance, mostly if the load too large.
Try not greater than -summarized- 600R source and 640R load, with the paralleled 10k -input impedance of preamp- the load will be about 600R.
You raise a very good point. Sowter are by no means the only maker of decent audio transformers in the UK. Now they are no longer the go to solurion perhaps one of the others can be encouraged to step in to fill the void?
Cheers
Ian