Any driver can be used on OB. Since those Jordans are really a tweeter that goes low down to 300, it should cover the key range of 500 to 3K well and really open up the vocals with OB. Plus it will permit you could use an extremely narrow baffle.
Driver spacing with 4 will be a key issue. As close together as possible maximizes the line array effect and as far apart as possible minimizes it. That effect is the focus of sound within the vertical plain of the array. Horizontal dispersion is unaffected. With only 4 small drivers close together, you would have a quite small vertical listening area. Above or below that plain sound is very limited. With 4 drivers the line array effect will be hard to avoid in the lower frequencies because the driver spacing required to create the line array effect is based on the wavelength of that frequency.
Driver spacing with 4 will be a key issue. As close together as possible maximizes the line array effect and as far apart as possible minimizes it. That effect is the focus of sound within the vertical plain of the array. Horizontal dispersion is unaffected. With only 4 small drivers close together, you would have a quite small vertical listening area. Above or below that plain sound is very limited. With 4 drivers the line array effect will be hard to avoid in the lower frequencies because the driver spacing required to create the line array effect is based on the wavelength of that frequency.
johninCR said:
With the huge sound improvement, less cabinet construction, increased efficiency, less weight for shipping, etc., why haven't the big manufacturers gone to OB's?
Im not sure about this although you dont see many active speakers around either. Dipole EQ really cannot be done, if required, successfully with passive crossovers.
I agree that it would be wise for manufactures to make a couple of open baffle designs as well as a few active designs also. For instance the JMlab super speakers utopia madness and all that. Would it really hurt JMlab to make an active crossover for the utopia range so people would have the option.
Konnichiwa,
Hm, open baffles need to be neither inefficient nor hard to place. The 3D Acoustics Kybalion measures in 94-95db/2.83V/1m, covered the frequency range down to around 50Hz and is easy to place, because it is a dipole. As for large, well, you need a certain minimum size if you want to avoid equalising the response, but there are ways around that.
I don't know. I came across a well documented Dipole project in Elector once, it was a 3-Way passive dipole with reponse down to 35Hz (-6db) and around 86db/W/m sensitivity. This suggests that dipole EQ can be done sucessfully passively.
I believe the biggest problems with open baffles are peoples prejudices and stupidity. As with all things that are problems, actually.
Sayonara
Fuling said:
I can understand that "ordinary people" don´t want these inefficient, hard to place beasts in their livingrooms but I think quite a few audiofiles wouldn´t mind
Hm, open baffles need to be neither inefficient nor hard to place. The 3D Acoustics Kybalion measures in 94-95db/2.83V/1m, covered the frequency range down to around 50Hz and is easy to place, because it is a dipole. As for large, well, you need a certain minimum size if you want to avoid equalising the response, but there are ways around that.
5th element said:
I don't know. I came across a well documented Dipole project in Elector once, it was a 3-Way passive dipole with reponse down to 35Hz (-6db) and around 86db/W/m sensitivity. This suggests that dipole EQ can be done sucessfully passively.
I believe the biggest problems with open baffles are peoples prejudices and stupidity. As with all things that are problems, actually.
Sayonara
It's about marketing to the masses. It's amazing how often the appearance of a loudspeaker effects how it sounds.
If it's uncommon and not understood it gets passed by. I would prefer to say ignorance rather than stupidity, however, once confronted by facts that prove the ignorance and then discounting the facts, that's stupid. I've heard well designed OBs that look like they have no business being in the room they're in (low ceiling, narrow walls, no acoustic treatments) and they were still the best thing I've heard.
Regarding appearance, I disagree. People like cool looking speakers. That's why manufactures hang all that plastic on the front of their plain boxes, to look cool.
I don't know, I guess once I get my system to where I want, I'll design one for mass market production. Box the bass with a closeable vent, small baffle for the mids, Lpad for the tweet, cheap materials, cool shape that packages compactly.
I don't know, I guess once I get my system to where I want, I'll design one for mass market production. Box the bass with a closeable vent, small baffle for the mids, Lpad for the tweet, cheap materials, cool shape that packages compactly.
A little bit of generalisation creeping in here gents.
What teenagers like, what trendies like, what housewives like and what audiophiles like are more often completely different items.
I would guess that those who are prepared to put up with the size of an OB are more-or-less confined to the audiophile group where sound quality is paramount.
That makes the market small enough to put off many manufacturers looking to sell thousands of speakers rather than a comparative handfull.
What does surprise me is the comparativly few DIYers who try OBs. I guess they just don't know what they are missing!
What teenagers like, what trendies like, what housewives like and what audiophiles like are more often completely different items.
I would guess that those who are prepared to put up with the size of an OB are more-or-less confined to the audiophile group where sound quality is paramount.
That makes the market small enough to put off many manufacturers looking to sell thousands of speakers rather than a comparative handfull.
What does surprise me is the comparativly few DIYers who try OBs. I guess they just don't know what they are missing!
FWIW, I attended CES and T.H.E. Show this year and heard many speakers but the best I heard was the Gilmore Model 2. Hands down the best speaker even compared to the $40,000 TAD Model 1 which many rave about. The Gilmore is OB and retails for $17K. There are a few niche manufacturers out to prove the superiority of OB. I'm still surprised to hear people say they're ugly speakers though. 
Timn8ter said:I'm still surprised to hear people say they're ugly speakers though.
I dont get this either any speaker can be made to look like a dogs dinner but open baffles are deffo not one of them. Linkwitz orion and phoenix I think look really stylish esp the orion, they are also not "that" big either.
What teenagers like, what trendies like, what housewives like and what audiophiles like are more often completely different items.
Teenagers dont have the money to buy open baffle commercial loudspeakers. Although im 19 = teenager and i have OB
Trendies like B&O and bose (if i understood ure meanin of trendy correctly), but you could easily make a trendy OB that would look aesthetically similar to a B&O.
Housewives tend to differ, but generally they dont like BIG ugly things, OB tend to be rather slim so help significantly with this and because they dont require much cabinet can be made out of solid hardwoods which will blend nicely with the decor
Audiophile - buys whatever he/she can afford thats gonna sound the best in his/her listening environment, irrespective of looks. Although they dont mind good looking hifi.
Well , the Gilmores might be the beginning of a trend.
Maybe we in DIY are really at the cutting edge!
Remember the Carver Amazing loudspeaker?
The Maggies are OB as are most electrostatics.
Maybe a significant portion the positive attributes of electrostatics is that they are open baffles!
The Audio Artistry line by Linkwitz was of course OB
Maybe we in DIY are really at the cutting edge!
Remember the Carver Amazing loudspeaker?
The Maggies are OB as are most electrostatics.
Maybe a significant portion the positive attributes of electrostatics is that they are open baffles!
The Audio Artistry line by Linkwitz was of course OB
Nuuk,
I was talking about the trend in mass marketed speakers to have more interesting looking front plates. That kind of stuff sells. It doesn't really matter to whom. Make an interesting dipole/bipole combo to take advantage of the dipole sound in the mids. Give them the bass and adjustable sizzle that they want, and it will sell. It just needs to be priced to put in Best Buy and it would outsell everything else because it will sound better.
Also, dipoles don't have to be big. Just look at Linkwitz's Phoenix. If you box the bass they can be quite compact with no eq needed or you can incorporate a W baffle in the bottom with 2 of the right drivers and get the bass that way. My current project will fit in W14"xH21"xD12" and includes and 8" coincident driver in the top and 4 6"drivers in the bottom and I'm not even trying to achieve compact. I could go alot narrower, but I want to show off the rare hardwood I'm using for the baffle and wings
I was talking about the trend in mass marketed speakers to have more interesting looking front plates. That kind of stuff sells. It doesn't really matter to whom. Make an interesting dipole/bipole combo to take advantage of the dipole sound in the mids. Give them the bass and adjustable sizzle that they want, and it will sell. It just needs to be priced to put in Best Buy and it would outsell everything else because it will sound better.
Also, dipoles don't have to be big. Just look at Linkwitz's Phoenix. If you box the bass they can be quite compact with no eq needed or you can incorporate a W baffle in the bottom with 2 of the right drivers and get the bass that way. My current project will fit in W14"xH21"xD12" and includes and 8" coincident driver in the top and 4 6"drivers in the bottom and I'm not even trying to achieve compact. I could go alot narrower, but I want to show off the rare hardwood I'm using for the baffle and wings
Commercial OB?
Talking about commercial OB, how's the Alon by Acarian range? Two things about this design, specifically the Exotica Grand, interest me a lot:
Few, if any, on this forum will say a Krell is "better" than a top-end diy amp, but I guess guys like us are not the primary market for commercial speaker makers like Audio Artistry. We don't seem to be spending enough on such things to keep these good companies alive.
Talking about commercial OB, how's the Alon by Acarian range? Two things about this design, specifically the Exotica Grand, interest me a lot:
- How successful are they, commercially?
- How do they sound, given all those multi-driver sets? Each frequency range is handled by multiple drivers... what about comb filtering and stuff like that? (In fact, I have the same question about the interactions between tweeter and midbass units in the Straight 8.) Specially check out the placement of the two midrange and two tweeter drivers in the Proteus.
Few, if any, on this forum will say a Krell is "better" than a top-end diy amp, but I guess guys like us are not the primary market for commercial speaker makers like Audio Artistry. We don't seem to be spending enough on such things to keep these good companies alive.
Re: Commercial OB?
While I'm sure they have great sounding speakers, the problem that I see with all similar companies is that the prices are absurd. What's more absurd is that anyone is buying thousand dollar power cords or cables. I mean come on, if you've got money to throw away give it to kids who really need it or set up scholarships or something else useful. Don't give it to con artists.
I was talking about OB's as a mainstream product..... Lower costs and better sound with the same quality of components..... Maybe I'll just be the one to do it.
tcpip said:We don't seem to be spending enough on such things to keep these good companies alive.
While I'm sure they have great sounding speakers, the problem that I see with all similar companies is that the prices are absurd. What's more absurd is that anyone is buying thousand dollar power cords or cables. I mean come on, if you've got money to throw away give it to kids who really need it or set up scholarships or something else useful. Don't give it to con artists.
I was talking about OB's as a mainstream product..... Lower costs and better sound with the same quality of components..... Maybe I'll just be the one to do it.
454 sez:
OTOH, there seems to be s/thing about the open baffle that doesn't appeal -- other than the lack of advertising. Maybe the lack of boxiness one gets used to?
Or is it the absence of fancy/ beautiful woodwork that's pleasing to the eye and also allows the price of the speaker to escalate?
That makes two of us. Especially considering the equipment they often use to discern such differences, i.e. stuff on review temporarily residing at their homes. Also, using passive 2/2,5 way speakers that ultimately and definitively reveal jaw-dropping differences (ok, I'm exaggerating a bit)
OTOH, there seems to be s/thing about the open baffle that doesn't appeal -- other than the lack of advertising. Maybe the lack of boxiness one gets used to?
Or is it the absence of fancy/ beautiful woodwork that's pleasing to the eye and also allows the price of the speaker to escalate?
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