I just read this whole thread!! - Unheard of for me to read a non audio topic on this forum, but this is an important subject. EVs vs internal combustion powered vehicles is an important debate, but much more importantly we need to move away from the model of everyone having a car and driving it for daily commuting and every errand.
We need government help with this. Don't allow private vehicles in urban areas. Spend transportation dollars (or pounds, or euros..) on mass transit infrastructure rather than building and maintaining more roads and parking. Let's save our cars for those times we really need them. Enjoy a Sunday drive, cruse the drive in on Saturday night - but don't drive to work every day and let the car sit in a lot.
Think about how much money you can save by not having to maintain several cars per family.
I think about how nice it is to visit large cities that don't require driving to go to meetings or out at night. It is liberating.
I would love to be able to use an E-bike for my commuting and errands but where we live it would be dangerous. I sold my motorcycles and road bike two years ago because I got tired of being assaulted by cell phone holding drivers every time I went out.
Ralph
We need government help with this. Don't allow private vehicles in urban areas. Spend transportation dollars (or pounds, or euros..) on mass transit infrastructure rather than building and maintaining more roads and parking. Let's save our cars for those times we really need them. Enjoy a Sunday drive, cruse the drive in on Saturday night - but don't drive to work every day and let the car sit in a lot.
Think about how much money you can save by not having to maintain several cars per family.
I think about how nice it is to visit large cities that don't require driving to go to meetings or out at night. It is liberating.
I would love to be able to use an E-bike for my commuting and errands but where we live it would be dangerous. I sold my motorcycles and road bike two years ago because I got tired of being assaulted by cell phone holding drivers every time I went out.
Ralph
I still don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. That tire wear is or is not harmful pollution?
Humoring you for now, this whole sublimation thing is just weird. What tire compounds are vapour at standard conditions and for some magical reason are kept solid when moulded into a tire?
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I expect cities will eventually provide a computer-controlled transport system.
- the movement of all vehicles is dictated centrally, including parking, routing, servicing, emergency vehicles, automatic handling of flow around road repairs and other obstacles, paid for priority options, scheduling of delivery vehicles outside rush periods etc. All vehicles will be made or installed with control and tracking hardware. Uber style companies will thrive, eventually they will go driverless, adoption of AI driven vehicles accelerated by the controlled environment. To leave your driveway in a privately owned vehicle, you’ll request a journey destination and you’ll get billed for the useage. Private ownership will decline, maybe disappear. Once the environmental impact of each journey becomes part of the useage pricing the market will start to encourage better behaviours.
At the current time the ‘market‘ is distorted, we pay a big up front cost for a vehicle so each extra mile driven feels cheap and we have no incentive to limit use or take public mass transport. That will all change.
Last edited:
Tire wear is polluting. But rubber although most would consider it a solid also behaves like a liquid. Rubber can be abraded under some conditions but in normal wear releases gas. Yes both are pollution. The major form of tire pollution occurs when we dispose of them! That is why a few folks grind them up and add that to some forms of pavement. Others burn them for fuel under special conditions.
If all tire wear became dust, the filth in high density traffic areas would be disgusting.
The stuff that drops on roads from cars and such that can become a problem is leaking oil. That oil plus a little bit of rain can lubricate the road and increase stopping distance. An issue usually covered in motorcycle schools.
Intersections were particularly slippery on a motorcycle. If you were making a turn, you had to tiptoe around like there was ice on the road.
jeff
Generalizations:
Electric cars are 1.5 to 2 times heavier than gas cars
Climbing up a hill takes more energy with an EV
It takes lots of energy to produce massive car batteries.
Battery Recycling? Really? How much energy to do that?
Electric power mains are already at the limit of their capacity, states want you/force you to turn your air conditioners off, or limit when you can use them, and what temperature you can set them too.
Electric cars are more expen$ive.
Most of you would Not get a "charge" out of driving around the Portland OR metro area in order to find a charging station.
Oops, my low charge battery is shutting my EV down.
If you ever tried to use public transit to get from one urban area to another urban area, such as Gresham to Beaverton, You will spend 3 to 3.5 Hours commuting for your work. Couples that work in different areas will just have to live in apartments in separate parts of the metro area; make each spouse live close to work. Even some short trips involve 3 busses, with 2 transfers (just to make a short trip).
The hills are too steep to allow most persons to ride their bicycles, even for a short trip to work.
Mass transit in cities that do not have the Mass, are very innefficient. That makes "Mass" an Oxymoron.
Compare Portland OR, to San Francisco CA. The only Mass in Portland is in the Catholic church.
Do the research yourself, and learn.
Do the math!
Think!
Surprise!
Have Fun!
"You should make things as simple as possible, but no simpler" - Albert Einstein
“Those who do not know History, are bound to make things worse than ever” - me
"Probability results in a Mean thing about Karl Friedrich Gauss, an Average man at the Peak of his career, who was at the Center of the Gaussian Curve." - me
Oh, this is "The Lounge" thread, Correct?
All things are fair to be discussed in a Lounge, even politics and religion. Right?
Electric cars are 1.5 to 2 times heavier than gas cars
Climbing up a hill takes more energy with an EV
It takes lots of energy to produce massive car batteries.
Battery Recycling? Really? How much energy to do that?
Electric power mains are already at the limit of their capacity, states want you/force you to turn your air conditioners off, or limit when you can use them, and what temperature you can set them too.
Electric cars are more expen$ive.
Most of you would Not get a "charge" out of driving around the Portland OR metro area in order to find a charging station.
Oops, my low charge battery is shutting my EV down.
If you ever tried to use public transit to get from one urban area to another urban area, such as Gresham to Beaverton, You will spend 3 to 3.5 Hours commuting for your work. Couples that work in different areas will just have to live in apartments in separate parts of the metro area; make each spouse live close to work. Even some short trips involve 3 busses, with 2 transfers (just to make a short trip).
The hills are too steep to allow most persons to ride their bicycles, even for a short trip to work.
Mass transit in cities that do not have the Mass, are very innefficient. That makes "Mass" an Oxymoron.
Compare Portland OR, to San Francisco CA. The only Mass in Portland is in the Catholic church.
Do the research yourself, and learn.
Do the math!
Think!
Surprise!
Have Fun!
"You should make things as simple as possible, but no simpler" - Albert Einstein
“Those who do not know History, are bound to make things worse than ever” - me
"Probability results in a Mean thing about Karl Friedrich Gauss, an Average man at the Peak of his career, who was at the Center of the Gaussian Curve." - me
Oh, this is "The Lounge" thread, Correct?
All things are fair to be discussed in a Lounge, even politics and religion. Right?
Last edited:
There is probably about as much chance of this happening as there is of taking US citizens' guns away from them...
Nope. He said plan I took him at his word. I'm not concerned with the IPCC report, I accept that as fact. As I accept the Stern report before it.
I'm only concerned with the plans to get to net zero how they're achieved, how much they cost, the societal change that will be needed to implement them and their environmental impact.
Burning fossil fuels. It will still be feedstock for things like making plastic.
dave
Amen to that. But how on earth do we get there? In the UK at least, every year public transport coverage (outside cities) shrinks. While I still cycle wherever I can, I'm increasingly being forced to use my car because there just aren't the busses there used to be.
Not just generalizations but outright BS. You should start by actually doing your own math before posting such inaccurate information. As already pointed out previously, a new EV is almost the same weight as a similarly equipped, size, and priced "near-luxury" car. The example was a Mercedes that weighs 4200+ lbs vs the Tesla Y that weighs 4400. Climbing up a hill takes more energy?? What are you even talking about? Last I checked the laws of physics are just that- if the cars are equal in weight, the energy is the same. Regarding batteries, omg, manufacturing something takes energy, and yet Tesla is massively profitable. How could that be?? How much do we actually recycle ordinary cars- no more or less than EV's will be recycled but given that most EV's are less than 4 years old the recycling question is still in it's infancy so this is really just a red herring. On what facts are you basing "power mains are already at their capacity"? Most houses have 20%+ reserve on their breaker panels by design. Also consider that charging an EV is an excellent example of an off-peak load- people come home from work and plug in their cars to charge in the evening. Perfect for bypassing peak-load constraints in case you happen to live in such an area, although I can not find any US region that actually forces users to restrict their usage. Last year over 1.2 million EVs were purchased in America- where are the outages?
And again, EV's are cheaper than an average US car as already documented in this thread.
ooh, this last one- omg, my EV is going to run out of electricity while commuting. It doesn't get much wronger than this. The great thing about EV's is that (provided you plug in at home, a high priority for EV adoption), how many of us drive over 150 miles every day while commuting? The beauty of EV's is that you start every day with a full tank of gas and unless you're leaving town on a trip you never have to look for a place to plug in. I save so much time owning an EV- no gas stations, no oil changes.
Please, yes, do some learning.
I believe fossil fuels are used to make wind turbine propellers.
They are Not recyclable.
How much energy does it take to make solar cells?
What is the probability of recycling them when they are at the end of their life?
There is an old song lyric, "Wishing and Hoping . . . "
That does not change how things pencil out, math is still King.
They are Not recyclable.
How much energy does it take to make solar cells?
What is the probability of recycling them when they are at the end of their life?
There is an old song lyric, "Wishing and Hoping . . . "
That does not change how things pencil out, math is still King.
Tyre wear particle emissions:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664766/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969720313358
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show
Long story short they exist and are a problem. As for whether EVs make more of them...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664766/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969720313358
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show
Long story short they exist and are a problem. As for whether EVs make more of them...
Plastics yes.
Not recyclable. More misinformation.
Not at large scale yet thou.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...wind-turbine-blades-out-landfills/8647981002/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452223622001584
https://electrek.co/2023/02/08/wind-turbine-recycle-blades/
https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/ar...blade-recycling-and-upcycling-reality-support
Seems to just be a case of putting the infrastructure in place.
If the 3rd article turns out, old turbine blades can become new turbine blades. It will also help the use of such materials in vehicles.
dave
- Status
- Not open for further replies.