The ragged edges could be remnants of heat sink compound, but the printing is faint as well.
I cannot say if that is normal.
And they are with NS logos, so the date codes must be verified, I recall TI gradually putting their marks on products taken over after the integration of NS into TI.
Some products were dropped, and there was a transit period when the NS logo was used on TI made parts.
I cannot say if that is normal.
And they are with NS logos, so the date codes must be verified, I recall TI gradually putting their marks on products taken over after the integration of NS into TI.
Some products were dropped, and there was a transit period when the NS logo was used on TI made parts.
Not saying anything one way or the other, just intrigued by a few details I would not expect in current TI samples, delivered straight from Factory.
* Use of the "NS" logo in a presumably fresh 2022 product?
* mixed metal and plastic back?
* faint almost unreadable logos? (I also processed and enlarged images like PRR did and got worse results than him)
* a BIG red flag, the crude rough edges in the "plastic" ones, maybe sign of a very crude unfit injection die?
Naresh should have an opinion on that, since he makes plastic parts for living.
* no comment on tinned legs on the plastic on es, they "might" be pre-tinned for convenience.
Layer is too thick, so it´s not the normal electrodeposited/plated coating but looks like immersion in molten solder.
That said, they might work well.
"The proof of the pudding lies in the eating"
EDIT: just checked: NS merged with TI in .... 2011 !!!!
I would expect N.O.S. to be sold out of an inherited warehouse for, say, 1 year, maybe two ... but not 11 years later!!!!
Would anybody expect ON samples to still be marked "Motorola" today?
* Use of the "NS" logo in a presumably fresh 2022 product?
* mixed metal and plastic back?
* faint almost unreadable logos? (I also processed and enlarged images like PRR did and got worse results than him)
* a BIG red flag, the crude rough edges in the "plastic" ones, maybe sign of a very crude unfit injection die?
Naresh should have an opinion on that, since he makes plastic parts for living.
* no comment on tinned legs on the plastic on es, they "might" be pre-tinned for convenience.
Layer is too thick, so it´s not the normal electrodeposited/plated coating but looks like immersion in molten solder.
That said, they might work well.
"The proof of the pudding lies in the eating"
EDIT: just checked: NS merged with TI in .... 2011 !!!!
I would expect N.O.S. to be sold out of an inherited warehouse for, say, 1 year, maybe two ... but not 11 years later!!!!
Would anybody expect ON samples to still be marked "Motorola" today?
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Yes they look identical to what I got from Mouser, RS just before the shortage
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/lm3886-fakes.181792/page-2#post-7189689
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/lm3886-fakes.181792/page-2#post-7189689
They were ordered from the TI store and shipped from their albeit old stocks in China. There are both types, the original and the newer fully insulated ones. The fully insulated ones do have a higher thermal resistance to the heatsink that is actually not specified! However as the chips include a thermal shutdown mode, they really can be used interchangeably.
A bit irritated today. A prototype PCB that just came in was a bit late and I apparently made five layout mistakes and at least one circuit one.
A bit irritated today. A prototype PCB that just came in was a bit late and I apparently made five layout mistakes and at least one circuit one.
National Semiconductor is now a brand name for TI, as is Burr Brown (which was merged into TI in 2000) and we still see the NS and BB logos on TI parts made today, which is a marketing decision (avoid confusion). Therefore a NS logo is not an indicator of old stock.EDIT: just checked: NS merged with TI in .... 2011 !!!!
I would expect N.O.S. to be sold out of an inherited warehouse for, say, 1 year, maybe two ... but not 11 years later!!!!
Would anybody expect ON samples to still be marked "Motorola" today?
Just compared the TF ones to three pieces I found in a drawer which are ~10 years old.
The plastic casing looks 100% identical in all details, but the type font differs... but even within my samples the font and logo lasering differs for parts with different date/mfg codes:
The ragged edges could occur if a filled material (glass fiber, talc and others are common), the groove is also not smooth in the old and new parts, typical of filler, and corrosive molding materials.
Simon has a clear trail all the way to TI, so these are unlikely to be fake.
We all have bad days at times...
Simon has a clear trail all the way to TI, so these are unlikely to be fake.
We all have bad days at times...
Why would they use reinforcing fiberglass in a part that is not subject to mechanical stress?
Epoxy there is just "wrapping".
Finely ground Industrial Talcum or chalk are usually mineral "loads" to cheapen product, not needed here, and in any case grain is fine enough to not "show" in the final product, plastic while plastic will perfectly fill injection die and NOT show those ragged edges.
Can simon7000 please show closeups, front and back, from a couple plastic cased ones only?
I am worried about the back edges, barely outlined in the shown pictures.
@jbau:
Bad days comment was in sympathy for Simon, he had some issues with his prototype.
And seeing the ejector pins and their engraving are sharp, I think the mold was left as is after EDM, which gives that typical rough finish.
May not be filled material, the reasons for use of those (temperature resistance, mechanical strength, cost saving etc.,) are mot needed for chips.
Injection, compression, and pot molding (as in LEDs) can all be used, the choice depends on the temperature and setting time, most epoxy formulas are slow compared to injection molding.
Ragged edges could be from the parts made from worn molds, for example, or not trimmed after casting.
But the finish quality is so so for original parts.
TI has put their high end audio products under the 'Overture' description, and some series like LM498xx have been removed from production.
This seems to be different for different markets, so the same part may have NS or TI markings in different regions. And corporate policies change, that is another issue.
Bad days comment was in sympathy for Simon, he had some issues with his prototype.
And seeing the ejector pins and their engraving are sharp, I think the mold was left as is after EDM, which gives that typical rough finish.
May not be filled material, the reasons for use of those (temperature resistance, mechanical strength, cost saving etc.,) are mot needed for chips.
Injection, compression, and pot molding (as in LEDs) can all be used, the choice depends on the temperature and setting time, most epoxy formulas are slow compared to injection molding.
Ragged edges could be from the parts made from worn molds, for example, or not trimmed after casting.
But the finish quality is so so for original parts.
TI has put their high end audio products under the 'Overture' description, and some series like LM498xx have been removed from production.
This seems to be different for different markets, so the same part may have NS or TI markings in different regions. And corporate policies change, that is another issue.
The LM3886T/NOPB I received from Mouser a month or two ago had the NSC logo just as the ones shown here.
Pretty common with the laser marking.
Or rather, TI bought National. $6.5B in cash if I recall correctly.EDIT: just checked: NS merged with TI in .... 2011 !!!!
I'm sure whatever ships todays is new production. If TI had product sitting on shelves they'd be marked "in stock" on their website, distributors would receive stock, and this thread wouldn't exist. TI is in the business of selling chips, not hoarding them.
I'm guessing, but I wonder if the NSC logo is used because it's specified on a package drawing somewhere and changing that drawing would create a fuss with the key customers. It could also be that TI uses National Semiconductor as a brand. You see a lot of LT branding on ADI's website even though ADI acquired LT a few years ago.
Tom
Older drivers may know that Ford invented Mercury (and bought Lincoln), Chrysler invented Plymouth, Rolls-Royce bought Bentley, and ALL of GM is about selling the same or similar soap under different brands. Or Jeep brand going through Willys/AMC/Mopar/Fiat.
The NS Audio line was as close to a "Cadillac" as the semi industry ever got. TI seems to know to flaunt it. Unfortunately the word has not got down to the laser-zap crew who seem to be trying to economize precious photons. (Maybe that is how TI grew from $5B to $8B in recent years.)
