At work, we sometimes send stuff off to be engraved, and before I send the email to the engravers, I always check what I've written to be engraved, and then check it twice more; the guy before me did the same, then asked me to check it for him; we really didn't want to make a mistake. How anyone can handle a gun with such complacency, is beyond me, but then if everyone was as risk adverse as me, we'd probably still be in the stone age. And I guess if you use guns a lot, perhaps it's easy to become careless.
1. Inductance of the cable. Impacts speaker cables a lot, at longer lengths.
2. Resistance of the cables. Reduces the dampening factor a lot, at longer lengths.
3. Capacitance of the cables. For high impedance cables it reduces the high end (and/or creates nasty resonances).
3.5 Dielectric loss, different dielectrics will cause a more complex response from the cable. There's a reason why certain dielectrics are never used in capacitors, it's because they're non-linear, and lossy. And a 2 conductor cable is a capacitor.
You read about how ceramic bypass caps aren't good for audio circuits. Yet you scoff whenever someone says putting a ceramic capacitor in their amp made it sound different.
Even if this isn't worth hundreds of dollars in cables. It's still a thing.
2. Resistance of the cables. Reduces the dampening factor a lot, at longer lengths.
3. Capacitance of the cables. For high impedance cables it reduces the high end (and/or creates nasty resonances).
3.5 Dielectric loss, different dielectrics will cause a more complex response from the cable. There's a reason why certain dielectrics are never used in capacitors, it's because they're non-linear, and lossy. And a 2 conductor cable is a capacitor.
You read about how ceramic bypass caps aren't good for audio circuits. Yet you scoff whenever someone says putting a ceramic capacitor in their amp made it sound different.
Even if this isn't worth hundreds of dollars in cables. It's still a thing.
Most of the stuff you learn in school is useless anyway. It's all useless if you get a degree in a subject and never use it, say, in a workplace setting.
Personal and cultural insults. Scotland, France and Britannia(wtf).
QED
Just for the record.
Racist?
Personal attacks?
No, they made an assertion wilhout any data. Anecdotal, smoke and fire? An observation of a culture and system that kills first and then suffers the consequences afterwards far too often.
Don't be so dramatic. Do you really believe someone on this forum would wish you dead
Unfortunate, how very understated.......
Oh, I must have dreamt it all, silly me. How superior of you. I'll run my next post pass you first to validate or correct.
I think you nailed it. Each cable has three measurable characteristics. Inductance, capacitance, and resistance. Can any of these properties affect sound?
Regards,
Dan
Firstly, for your knowledge, the ways Inductance, Capacitance & Resistance interact with each other is called > REACTANCE.
When it comes to the differences heard between different speaker cables, there are two main factors involved.
*1 is the output impedance of the amplifier, *2 is the impedance response of the speaker.
Cheap/thin/low grade wire is the 'most heard' if your speaker has a lumpy impedance response. (very common)
If your speaker had a flat impedance response, your cheap wire would have way much less 'sound effect'.
The best case for cheap cable is when it is used with a high output impedance amplifier and a smooth impedance speaker.
The worst case for cheap cable is when it is used with a low output impedance amplifier combined with a lumpy imp. speaker.
The above case actually causes loss of your amplifiers Damping Factor causing 'sloppy' and/or 'boomy' bass response >
the other interesting that happens is the frequency response of your speaker actually starts to mimic its impedance response.
SO - The basic 'golden rule' is to buy the heaviest gauge OFC coper wire you can afford.
Buying 'million dollar' esoteric speaker cable is really just not necessary.
People with tube amps that have output transformers, very often use 'exotic cable' to tune for a desired sound. (whether accurate or not)
I forgot to mention.
The Skin effect is too a thing.
You don't think much of it for like line level audio cables. But if you have 8 ohm speakers, or maybe 4 ohm for some reason. 0.1 ohms will not be a negligible wire impedance. And the skin effect is very much present around 10-20khz
Unfortunately heavy gauge litz wire isn't exactly common to find. So the best you can do is just keep the wires short. Or use 2 thinner wires in parallel if you're that picky about getting the best performance.
Every speaker will have a bumpy impedance response. Even bumpier transient response... It's redundant to be thinking of scenarios where the speaker has a smooth impedance response.
Also, resistance would effect performance in a phono preamp too. But here it would be noise.
Since it's such a sensitive input, ESPECIALLY if you have a MC cartrige. The extra resistance from the cables will cause more noise.
For a 30 ohm loaded phono amp, you don't want an extra 0.5ohms of resistive noise.
What is oxygen free copper? is it the crappy speaker wire that you get and is impossible to solder to?
Just get mains power cable, That actually has to pass certifications to be sold, you wont find copper cladded aluminum in a store. But you may find it in a hifi shot
Oh and if you want "proof".
Impedance and Resistance are big factors in speaker cables because of how low of an impedance is the load.
If you have like 0.5mm lamp cord for a speaker cable, it will have around 0.87ohms of impedance... If you have a 8 ohm speaker, it's impedance will drop to nearly 3 ohms in certain areas. So that's >10% of the power going into the wire. And since the speaker impedance isn't constant, it will change the response.
But like 3mm wire will only have 0.024ohms..
BUT at 20khz the skin effect depth is 0.461mm. The 0.5mm wire wont be effected. But the 3mm wire will have it's impedance go up to 0.027 ohms.
What if you have some weird 2 ohm speakers? MAYBE you're building a Tweed Bassman guitar amp, at that point 27mohms and probably more in the connections alone will have almost 2% the impedance of the speakers.
Lets say you have a MM phono cartridge. the difference in cable capacitance is HUGE.http%3A%2F
And if you want proof for capacitor dielectric impacts.
Put a ceramic disc bypass cap on a curve traces and tell me how linear it is. The line should be straight btw
And for MC cartriges. their DC impedance is around 0.3ohms for the cartrige itslef... Now does putting 1 ohm of cable on that sound like a good idea?
Maybe next time when you see an audiophile discussing what cable sound he likes. Instead of calling him retarded, advise him on connecting 3 1.5mm mains cables in parallel for a speaker cable. "It's the secret the hifi companies dont want you to know"
The Skin effect is too a thing.
You don't think much of it for like line level audio cables. But if you have 8 ohm speakers, or maybe 4 ohm for some reason. 0.1 ohms will not be a negligible wire impedance. And the skin effect is very much present around 10-20khz
Unfortunately heavy gauge litz wire isn't exactly common to find. So the best you can do is just keep the wires short. Or use 2 thinner wires in parallel if you're that picky about getting the best performance.
Every speaker will have a bumpy impedance response. Even bumpier transient response... It's redundant to be thinking of scenarios where the speaker has a smooth impedance response.
Also, resistance would effect performance in a phono preamp too. But here it would be noise.
Since it's such a sensitive input, ESPECIALLY if you have a MC cartrige. The extra resistance from the cables will cause more noise.
For a 30 ohm loaded phono amp, you don't want an extra 0.5ohms of resistive noise.
What is oxygen free copper? is it the crappy speaker wire that you get and is impossible to solder to?
Just get mains power cable, That actually has to pass certifications to be sold, you wont find copper cladded aluminum in a store. But you may find it in a hifi shot
Oh and if you want "proof".
Impedance and Resistance are big factors in speaker cables because of how low of an impedance is the load.
If you have like 0.5mm lamp cord for a speaker cable, it will have around 0.87ohms of impedance... If you have a 8 ohm speaker, it's impedance will drop to nearly 3 ohms in certain areas. So that's >10% of the power going into the wire. And since the speaker impedance isn't constant, it will change the response.
But like 3mm wire will only have 0.024ohms..
BUT at 20khz the skin effect depth is 0.461mm. The 0.5mm wire wont be effected. But the 3mm wire will have it's impedance go up to 0.027 ohms.
What if you have some weird 2 ohm speakers? MAYBE you're building a Tweed Bassman guitar amp, at that point 27mohms and probably more in the connections alone will have almost 2% the impedance of the speakers.
Lets say you have a MM phono cartridge. the difference in cable capacitance is HUGE.http%3A%2F
And if you want proof for capacitor dielectric impacts.
Put a ceramic disc bypass cap on a curve traces and tell me how linear it is. The line should be straight btw
And for MC cartriges. their DC impedance is around 0.3ohms for the cartrige itslef... Now does putting 1 ohm of cable on that sound like a good idea?
Maybe next time when you see an audiophile discussing what cable sound he likes. Instead of calling him retarded, advise him on connecting 3 1.5mm mains cables in parallel for a speaker cable. "It's the secret the hifi companies dont want you to know
"
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Are you saying that a Moving Coil phono cartrige outputs a 0dB line level signal at the loudest parts of the grove?
Also, 50dB is around what the stereo separation is. The dynamic range is more like 80dB
Typical max output of a MC cartrige would be around 1mV. Which is -47dB. -47dB + -80dB = -127dB.
Some people don't like hearing a waterfall BEFORE they drop the needle on the record.
Also, 50dB is around what the stereo separation is. The dynamic range is more like 80dB
Typical max output of a MC cartrige would be around 1mV. Which is -47dB. -47dB + -80dB = -127dB.
Some people don't like hearing a waterfall BEFORE they drop the needle on the record.
If the speaker cable is like zip cord in design, with conductors close to each other, inductance will be cancelled to some degree because currents will flow in opposite directions in the two conductors. The opposing magnetic fields set up by flowing current will cause some cancellation. Capacitance, however, can be an issue, as well as DCR if either are high enough. As for dielectrics in capacitors, the Z5U ceramic is just awful but the caps are used anyway for bypass applications because, izz cheep! So long as there remains a required minimum amount over the expected temperature range of operation, they do sorta work. Such caps would be pretty bad for carrying audio signals of sufficient current. Agree with number 3 of your post. #2 depends on amplifier output impedance. If that is low, such as in transistorized designs, the cable resistance can be significant. If the amp's output impedance is high, such as in tube amp designs with low feedback applied, then a few milliohms here or there are just not going to be significant. Worrying about cable resistance in that setting is like pouring a glass of water into the ocean and expecting to see the water level rise, and then worrying when no level rise is seen.
OK lads, that is enough. This thread has run its course and is now a moderation headache. Thread closed. Goodnight.- Status
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