JP4447676B2 -
Panel type speaker device
- Google Patents
I was reading through this patent, when I suddenly realised that I had also done similar experiments in the past.
I think I still have some panels left around somewhere, I think I might try updating them to see how they perform.
I think the panels were only about 5inches in size ,I have not a clue where I put them , so Just as well I'm in no hurry.
Steve.
Panel type speaker device
- Google Patents
I was reading through this patent, when I suddenly realised that I had also done similar experiments in the past.
I think I still have some panels left around somewhere, I think I might try updating them to see how they perform.
I think the panels were only about 5inches in size ,I have not a clue where I put them , so Just as well I'm in no hurry.
Steve.
Andreas.
Where to start ?
Drums are tuned to different frequencies (resonances) to produce different sounds, they are musical instruments.
When I had my canvas and ply panel ,the resonance was in the region of about 50 to 60hz or so.
Similar to reflex loading, you get a hump in this area.
When I tried to tighten the panel ,this raised the centre of the hump up to about 100hz.
I lost all the frequencies below about 80hz.
If you raise the frequency more you start to go into the lower midrange where the resonance will be set off by a variety of sounds.
On a real drum these frequencies will be a lot higher, the skins are very tight.
Would adding , let's say, a ply panel be enough to control the drum resonance ? I don't know.
It would be interesting to see what happens if you do do tests on drums , so don't let me put you off.
It would all be useful information.
if you go too loose you lose everything obviously.
Sorry an old friend just phoned and now I've lost my thread
But I think that's about it.
Steve.
Steve.
Where to start ?
Drums are tuned to different frequencies (resonances) to produce different sounds, they are musical instruments.
When I had my canvas and ply panel ,the resonance was in the region of about 50 to 60hz or so.
Similar to reflex loading, you get a hump in this area.
When I tried to tighten the panel ,this raised the centre of the hump up to about 100hz.
I lost all the frequencies below about 80hz.
If you raise the frequency more you start to go into the lower midrange where the resonance will be set off by a variety of sounds.
On a real drum these frequencies will be a lot higher, the skins are very tight.
Would adding , let's say, a ply panel be enough to control the drum resonance ? I don't know.
It would be interesting to see what happens if you do do tests on drums , so don't let me put you off.
It would all be useful information.
if you go too loose you lose everything obviously.
Sorry an old friend just phoned and now I've lost my thread
But I think that's about it.
Steve.
Steve.
OK. In a few hours my Aiyima resonators will be delivered by the mail. This tracking thing is great for knowing when you are waiting for something. Quite full of suspense!
My first tests will be using canvas paint panels, so here go a few questions.
1) What panel sizes should I pick? I have 4 resonators, so I can assemble two pairs and compare results. Panel size might be the first thing to try. My panels can't be too large, particularly width, because of the place where they will be used.
2) What to paint the panels with? Mentioned were PVC, Acrylic water paint and plaster of Paris. There's also a plastic mass which painters apply on walls and wood before painting to even the surface. I'm not sure what's the universal name for it.
3) How to glue the resonator to the canvas? I've read double sided sticker tapes and hot glue. I would prefer some material I can easily remove later, both from the panel and resonator, without damage to any. Contact glue, perhaps?
4) How to hold the resonator's body? The glue shouldn't do that, and a wood stripe, going from side to side of the panel would take care of that. But how to make the wood just hold the resonator in position and not push it forward against the canvas? Another way I thought was to use thin wire or fishing nylon, held from two nails on each pane side, plus top and bottom, to float the resonator with minimum pressure.
5) Damping panels, wood or other material. This is one of the reason I wouldn't like to glue the resonators permanently to the canvas or any other material. Contact glue, like that used in carpentry, might be an option, only it might not be used with certain materials, that dissolve them.
My first tests will be using canvas paint panels, so here go a few questions.
1) What panel sizes should I pick? I have 4 resonators, so I can assemble two pairs and compare results. Panel size might be the first thing to try. My panels can't be too large, particularly width, because of the place where they will be used.
2) What to paint the panels with? Mentioned were PVC, Acrylic water paint and plaster of Paris. There's also a plastic mass which painters apply on walls and wood before painting to even the surface. I'm not sure what's the universal name for it.
3) How to glue the resonator to the canvas? I've read double sided sticker tapes and hot glue. I would prefer some material I can easily remove later, both from the panel and resonator, without damage to any. Contact glue, perhaps?
4) How to hold the resonator's body? The glue shouldn't do that, and a wood stripe, going from side to side of the panel would take care of that. But how to make the wood just hold the resonator in position and not push it forward against the canvas? Another way I thought was to use thin wire or fishing nylon, held from two nails on each pane side, plus top and bottom, to float the resonator with minimum pressure.
5) Damping panels, wood or other material. This is one of the reason I wouldn't like to glue the resonators permanently to the canvas or any other material. Contact glue, like that used in carpentry, might be an option, only it might not be used with certain materials, that dissolve them.
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Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm currently listed on Amazon (see attached screen shot) @ $39.99 each (nearly double the PartsExpress price.
Also see: Amazon page
Amazon "promises" rapid delivery (by Friday 8 Oct with Prime Delivery).
Distributor some company called "Trent Merchandise" out of Texas.
Seems like someone scooped up some Thrusters and now sells them at a substantial mark-up.
I ordered some as PartsExpress lists them as backordered with expected delivery around 19 November.
Seems a bit dodgy.
I'll report as to whether they actually deliver them.
-- Andreas
P.S. It looks like same distributor also has (or claims to have) the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4 Framed High Efficiency 25mm Exciter 24W 4 Ohm.
Also see: Amazon page
Amazon "promises" rapid delivery (by Friday 8 Oct with Prime Delivery).
Distributor some company called "Trent Merchandise" out of Texas.
Seems like someone scooped up some Thrusters and now sells them at a substantial mark-up.
I ordered some as PartsExpress lists them as backordered with expected delivery around 19 November.
Seems a bit dodgy.
I'll report as to whether they actually deliver them.
-- Andreas
P.S. It looks like same distributor also has (or claims to have) the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4 Framed High Efficiency 25mm Exciter 24W 4 Ohm.
Attachments
Someone must have bought them a while back in bulk and now is trying to sell them at a profit. I've seen on this forum several times people who have bought like 50 at a time when they were on sale. I've bought from PE since the 80s. They are a reputable company, and have always treated me very well. They stand behind their products. It is my understanding that they own Dayton Audio. The exciters are made in China. There is a queue of 75 ships lined up outside LA harbor right now waiting to get in to unload, when normally there is only 2 or 3. Blame the administration paying people more to stay home than they make to go to work, plus LA harbor only works 7-5, Monday-Friday!
Could this tape be used to fix the resonator to the canvas or other surface?
1M/3M/5M Transparent Nano Tape Washable Reusable Double Sided Tape Adhesive Nano no Trace Paste Fixer tape Cleanable House|Bath Mats| - AliExpress
1M/3M/5M Transparent Nano Tape Washable Reusable Double Sided Tape Adhesive Nano no Trace Paste Fixer tape Cleanable House|Bath Mats| - AliExpress
carlmart --
I suggest you either:
I suggest you either:
- call 3M's customer support line at: (888) 364-3577 or
- contact 3M via their Chat line.
As a company they know how to attach just about anything to anything else and I've found their customer/solution support great.I'm not sure what you pretend to mean with that.
I saw that 3M tape announced on Facebook, and just asked if it could be used to firmly attach the resonator to the front panel.
I don't need any info from them, I want them from those here that have experienced different ways to have a good contact between device and panel.
I saw that 3M tape announced on Facebook, and just asked if it could be used to firmly attach the resonator to the front panel.
I don't need any info from them, I want them from those here that have experienced different ways to have a good contact between device and panel.
Spedge, I think that could work, but I can't help but wonder if that would dampen some high end response. I used similarly squishy tape on my Aiyimas and response fell off a cliff above 11k or so. Going to glue them directly to the panel and see how response changes so I'll let you know.
I feel like Vaseline or some other sticky gel would be better for temporary mounting. Or the thinnest double sided tape you can find.
I feel like Vaseline or some other sticky gel would be better for temporary mounting. Or the thinnest double sided tape you can find.
The Aiyimas I bought came with a double-sided tape circles, one for each.
But I am not sure they can be used again, and I intend to do several tests in different panels.
Besides that the devices are heavy, probably 200-300g each. So the tape won't be enough to hold the resonators in place.
After tests are done you can glue the devices to the panels, but what can be the best temporary mounting?
But I am not sure they can be used again, and I intend to do several tests in different panels.
Besides that the devices are heavy, probably 200-300g each. So the tape won't be enough to hold the resonators in place.
After tests are done you can glue the devices to the panels, but what can be the best temporary mounting?
Carlmart.
If I was you , and was testing different panels, I would start with my card panels.
They are free and easy to make , they are light and need no support, they sound very good and can be glued to the exciter with pva.
If you wish to test other panels ,you can just rip them off and start again.
Steve.
If I was you , and was testing different panels, I would start with my card panels.
They are free and easy to make , they are light and need no support, they sound very good and can be glued to the exciter with pva.
If you wish to test other panels ,you can just rip them off and start again.
Steve.
As I intend to follow your lead (listening to others too), please tell me more.
Which are your card panels? What card is that exactly?
Perhaps the initial tests should be done with 3mm wood paste panels, which would accept pva glue perfectly. Can that be considered a "card"?
I guess their HF might be highly attenuated above 10KHz, but it's very easy to assemble them.
Which are your card panels? What card is that exactly?
Perhaps the initial tests should be done with 3mm wood paste panels, which would accept pva glue perfectly. Can that be considered a "card"?
I guess their HF might be highly attenuated above 10KHz, but it's very easy to assemble them.
Carlmart.
If by 3mm wood paste, you mean ply or mdf ? The response should have no problem reaching 20k ,depending on the exciter response of course.
The card panel is very simple to cut with scissors.
I usually use an old serial (cornflakes) box ,they are usually .5mm ,I glue two sheets together with neat pva which makes a 1mm panel.
I then coat the outside of the panel with pva also.
So the panel is a sort of ply with pva,card,pva,card pva.
You could start with the larger size (box) panel and use the scissors to cut them down to the size you want.
Obviously if you have a 1mm or 2mm card lying around you could use them instead,less work?
Very easy to use and throw away if not to your tastes.
Steve
If by 3mm wood paste, you mean ply or mdf ? The response should have no problem reaching 20k ,depending on the exciter response of course.
The card panel is very simple to cut with scissors.
I usually use an old serial (cornflakes) box ,they are usually .5mm ,I glue two sheets together with neat pva which makes a 1mm panel.
I then coat the outside of the panel with pva also.
So the panel is a sort of ply with pva,card,pva,card pva.
You could start with the larger size (box) panel and use the scissors to cut them down to the size you want.
Obviously if you have a 1mm or 2mm card lying around you could use them instead,less work?
Very easy to use and throw away if not to your tastes.
Steve
Cornflakes is not something that people eat in Brazil, so that's not an option. Or any other similar box to that.
The wood paste I mean is not ply or mdf. It's more malleable and easy to work with. I do not know what the commercial name might be in UK, but over here is called Eucatex. It's very cheap, and mostly used on internal roofs.
It's 2.5mm thick. One side is smooth and the other more raw.
The wood paste I mean is not ply or mdf. It's more malleable and easy to work with. I do not know what the commercial name might be in UK, but over here is called Eucatex. It's very cheap, and mostly used on internal roofs.
It's 2.5mm thick. One side is smooth and the other more raw.