What about tectonics? Arnt thay making their DML panels for PA aplication?A few years ago, someone, who was a member here directed us to this company. Looks like they are still doing business. Other than them, I can't find anyone doing business, real business, producing DMLs. Actually, it is really educating to fly through the thread from the beginning. Once, you omit the unnecessary stuff, it is a fast going.One person, who was here, continued to stress that what's important is what your own ears hear, rather than the microphone and what the programs interpret. Sound advice, as whatever you build, you are going to hear them.
Oh, sure they do, only DML500 is nearly $3000! The problem of all these business entities is that they don't want to produce for the general public, trying hard to make this 'technology' a niche product, so the DMLs not really known to the general public. Simply we are left to create good sounding flat speakers for very little money.
Burntcoil.
The other day when I was playing around with some panels, I started turning them around in different directions.
I thought if I had a TV near a wall it might be handy to toe the panels outwards instead of inwards, so that the panel could touch the wall on one side and be level withe the TV on the other.
It was a little awkward in my room what with all the rubbish in it at the moment.
But it worked quite well, widening the image a little because of the closeness of the side walls.
I just remembered that at the podium 1 launch, they actually picked up the panels and turned them around while playing music.
With very little difference in sound and imaging.
Steve.
The other day when I was playing around with some panels, I started turning them around in different directions.
I thought if I had a TV near a wall it might be handy to toe the panels outwards instead of inwards, so that the panel could touch the wall on one side and be level withe the TV on the other.
It was a little awkward in my room what with all the rubbish in it at the moment.
But it worked quite well, widening the image a little because of the closeness of the side walls.
I just remembered that at the podium 1 launch, they actually picked up the panels and turned them around while playing music.
With very little difference in sound and imaging.
Steve.
If anyone is interested, Dr. Jose Bertagni used standard speaker voice coils, magnets (back part of a speaker) on his flat panel speakers. He had even shaped the back of the polystyrene foam sheet to look like a cone and used a Toru Maruyama type spike from the voice coil to touch the back of the panel. In this video you'd see 3 such magnets, voice coils to get different sound. He had also used some grooves etc to enhance the output. There's no subtitles to this video. I suppose it is in Portuguese. If anyone can translate, would be nice.
What if you'd place them horizontally flat at the ear level, (maybe on chair backs) directed to the ceiling, listen at the normal distance? Would you get an omnidirectional sound?
Wharfedale corner speaker used to point the midrange tweeter unit upwards towards the ceiling to produce a more omnidirectional sound.
Which worked very well for live orchestral sound .
But I felt that the this method needed more direct sound for modern music.
A small DML panel similar to this would direct sound forward as well as up, I have tested this in the past.
Steve.
Which worked very well for live orchestral sound .
But I felt that the this method needed more direct sound for modern music.
A small DML panel similar to this would direct sound forward as well as up, I have tested this in the past.
Steve.
chdsl,
I have no idea. Very interesting and lateral question but currently I need to EQ the Whites in their current position to get a reference point and I don’t have enough time right now to do that. It is an interesting question though. Maybe you want to try that out if you can?
Burnt
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Steve regarding the Podium demonstration I did the same with the Blondes several times with the same result. I also lived with the Blondes edge on for a while before committing to the White design. I have never detected much effect from them being in a bay but there are a lot of drapes which probably helps.
Burnt
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Steve regarding rooms and measurement I am thinking about the Dirac room correction at some point in the future and it will be interesting to see how it copes with DML’s. A before and after should prove interesting.
Burnt
Speaking of a round DML....
When I was looking on the web for how the term "bending wave" speaker is used, I came across this speaker, which I had never seen before:
https://www.ondacustica.com/carla-reference-nirvana
Two interesting points:
1. First they actually appear to use a round panel! I can't be absolutely sure it's round, but it sure looks like it is. It also appears to be carbon fiber, or (more probably) carbon fiber skins over some lightweight core.
2. Interestingly, their sales literature is is almost identical, like nearly word-for word identical to the Goebel literature, see the snips from the Onacustica website (white background) and Goebel website (black background) below for comparison.
I feel pretty sure that they must be licensing the Goebel patent (assuming it's still in force). Otherwise it's pretty blatant plagiarism!
As pway said, be wary of marketing terms or claims!
Compare for example:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
When I was looking on the web for how the term "bending wave" speaker is used, I came across this speaker, which I had never seen before:
https://www.ondacustica.com/carla-reference-nirvana
Two interesting points:
1. First they actually appear to use a round panel! I can't be absolutely sure it's round, but it sure looks like it is. It also appears to be carbon fiber, or (more probably) carbon fiber skins over some lightweight core.
2. Interestingly, their sales literature is is almost identical, like nearly word-for word identical to the Goebel literature, see the snips from the Onacustica website (white background) and Goebel website (black background) below for comparison.
I feel pretty sure that they must be licensing the Goebel patent (assuming it's still in force). Otherwise it's pretty blatant plagiarism!
As pway said, be wary of marketing terms or claims!
Compare for example:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
Ondacustica:
Goebel:
When you have time. No need of any measurements, only how you hear them. You've got lot of DMLs, so when you have time. I have tried smaller EPS flat panels horizontally. Not exactly at the ear level, but about a metre above the floor. Interesting sound effect. Whether it is omnidirectional or not, I'm not quite sure, but with an interesting effect, with the floor and the ceiling interacting. Would like to hear anyone else's subjective feeling.
By the way, high frequencies can be heard very clearly, when the twitter is upfiring, contrary to many specialists claim. And, everyone's floor and the ceiling are more or less the same, except maybe the height or the carpeting. Maybe the flat horizontal panel is not exactly eye-catching but could be made to look like a beautiful side table, maybe a boxy, bottom open side table, to get a bit of bass.
Something like this, of course, without the drawers and the bottom.
Something like this, of course, without the drawers and the bottom.
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Steve,
Thanks, I linked to the other page because it had a picture of the round speaker. But all the quotes I posted came from the page in your link.
Did anything in particular catch your attention?
Eric
Someone in this thread was telling us to use a frame and fix the sides at the edges to the frame with damping material, and also that the frame should be much thicker than the panel material. So, instead of a thicker frame, a box like frame (as in the side table). I think we could use EPS 300, which is used for flooring. Bit expensive, though. Thinner, the better, maybe 5mm. Transducer, whether shop-bought, or DIY made like by Dr. Jose Bertagni should be supported by a brace, so that the transducer wouldn't weigh down the panel. Now, when the transducer is fixed vertically (upfiring), it is easier for the voice coil to work. As the panel is placed/fixed horizontally, there's no weight transferred to it, except its own weight. The transducer/voice coil can transfer the vibrations to the panel, by a conical spike, as in Beratgni video, or as Toru Maruyama. This place must be toughened so the spike won't go through it. The EPS sheet might sag in time, but not that expensive to replace. Or glue some thin timber slats to make it stiffer or buy a 10mm sheet. I have a feeling that 70cm x 40cm EPS sheet is quite enough to get a good sound this way.
That lower exciter in the Bertagni video really moves! Wish I understood the narration. But I didn’t see a conical spike on his drivers. Where is that shown in the video?
Yes, there's no conical spike in Bertagni's, I must've mistaken the brace like carving for the spike. He's using voice coil directly on to the polystyrene sheet. Here's Bertagni patent.