The xo curves above is what I'd like to have acoustically. Minidsp gives me many ways to get there. I try to follow John Reekie...
The 4x10HD minidsp will arive today finally! The Finnish Customs and FedEx have been holding it for two weeks now!
The 4x10HD minidsp will arive today finally! The Finnish Customs and FedEx have been holding it for two weeks now!
I have been working hard with the proto and minidsp!
I used a 2ch amp, which measn I had to do huge number of measurements to match levels after every change in PEQ. Fortunately it is very easy to do, because when the 4x10HD is connected to the computer with usb it reads software settings "online"
The beginning was difficult but finally I started using negative values for correction too. Each channel's master volume varies from -13 to -18db and maximum corrections are around 9dB. The Tweeter had to be shelved almost 20dB above 10kHz!
Here are my graphs! 20ms used for every measurement, mic at tweeter level, distance 80cm. UMIK-1 with a calibration file. The spl level is not calibrated. The room was my home theater "bunker", it makes wiggles up to 400Hz and some early reflections. The poor directivity at 2000Hz puzzles me, it should be right on dipole area...
W to LM xo 180Hz LR 12dB
LM to HM xo 800Hz BW18dB
HM to T xo 3500Hz BW18dB
The area around 400 to 800 is very difficult.
I used a 2ch amp, which measn I had to do huge number of measurements to match levels after every change in PEQ. Fortunately it is very easy to do, because when the 4x10HD is connected to the computer with usb it reads software settings "online"
The beginning was difficult but finally I started using negative values for correction too. Each channel's master volume varies from -13 to -18db and maximum corrections are around 9dB. The Tweeter had to be shelved almost 20dB above 10kHz!
Here are my graphs! 20ms used for every measurement, mic at tweeter level, distance 80cm. UMIK-1 with a calibration file. The spl level is not calibrated. The room was my home theater "bunker", it makes wiggles up to 400Hz and some early reflections. The poor directivity at 2000Hz puzzles me, it should be right on dipole area...
W to LM xo 180Hz LR 12dB
LM to HM xo 800Hz BW18dB
HM to T xo 3500Hz BW18dB
The area around 400 to 800 is very difficult.
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The xo ver2 has:
W to LM LR12dB @ 160Hz (LM inverted polarity) I also put a temporary 12dB HP filter for low bass because of huge boundary gain in my small room!
LM to HM LR12dB @ 800Hz
HM to T BW30dB @ 3500Hz
PEQ was modified too
This resulted in more even spl and directivity
I moved the proto to a little better position and used 1m distance. I had to stop making sweeps and ver2 is not finished yet, I hope to to get some graphs tomorrow with an AV amplifier.
W to LM LR12dB @ 160Hz (LM inverted polarity) I also put a temporary 12dB HP filter for low bass because of huge boundary gain in my small room!
LM to HM LR12dB @ 800Hz
HM to T BW30dB @ 3500Hz
PEQ was modified too
This resulted in more even spl and directivity
I moved the proto to a little better position and used 1m distance. I had to stop making sweeps and ver2 is not finished yet, I hope to to get some graphs tomorrow with an AV amplifier.
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Nice progress Juhazi.
What are your feelings about UMIK-1? I've been planning on for simple mic for some time and UMIK-1 seems simple enough 🙂
What are your feelings about UMIK-1? I've been planning on for simple mic for some time and UMIK-1 seems simple enough 🙂
Thanks, jlaakso!
The miniDSP UMIK-1 is as simple and easy as it can be! No hazzle with mic preamps etc. humming devices. Just plug and measure! The downloadable calibration file for REW is nice too. The mechanical quality is good.
I've decided to use 30 and 45¤ measurements as main guideline, as suggested by Jon Marsh and John Kreskowsky. Also it seems like my NeoCD3.5 gives way too much directivity. Hopefully it has a detachable waveguide! I must make that modification tonight!
I bought a second hand Cambridge Audio Azur 540 AV receiver for 250€ from here
The miniDSP UMIK-1 is as simple and easy as it can be! No hazzle with mic preamps etc. humming devices. Just plug and measure! The downloadable calibration file for REW is nice too. The mechanical quality is good.
I've decided to use 30 and 45¤ measurements as main guideline, as suggested by Jon Marsh and John Kreskowsky. Also it seems like my NeoCD3.5 gives way too much directivity. Hopefully it has a detachable waveguide! I must make that modification tonight!
I bought a second hand Cambridge Audio Azur 540 AV receiver for 250€ from here
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Do You plan to use that as power amp in your setup? Connect miniDSP 4x10 to 6.1 direct input etc?
CA 540 is just for prototyping, the final AINO GRADIENT will have B&O icepower modules - fully active! It might be a problem to use via AV receiver - does the pre out follow main level control?
The AINOproto v3 is finished!
Drivers:
W SEAS L26ROY closed box
LM Beyma 12MWNd no baffle tilted 30¤ backwards on the box
HM Vifa NE95 pair 120mm baffle dipole (MTM)
T Fountek NeoCD3.5H (without waveguide)
miniDSP 4x10HD settings
PEQ to control dipole effect and other variations in measured spl without xo.
xo 200/LR12dB 850/LR12dB 4000/LR24dB, levels matched
This is fun and difficult! I am happy for what I have achieved with minidsp in 4 days (the few free hours of those...) The sound is wonderful (one speaker playing) - tight and solid bass, exellent human voices and solo instruments. Very clear and fast transients and highest treble. The rooms don't seem to colorate or add decay or "ringing" to the sound. I hate that I'll have to wait until summer to hear these playing stereo!
The AINOproto v3 is finished!
Drivers:
W SEAS L26ROY closed box
LM Beyma 12MWNd no baffle tilted 30¤ backwards on the box
HM Vifa NE95 pair 120mm baffle dipole (MTM)
T Fountek NeoCD3.5H (without waveguide)
miniDSP 4x10HD settings
PEQ to control dipole effect and other variations in measured spl without xo.
xo 200/LR12dB 850/LR12dB 4000/LR24dB, levels matched
This is fun and difficult! I am happy for what I have achieved with minidsp in 4 days (the few free hours of those...) The sound is wonderful (one speaker playing) - tight and solid bass, exellent human voices and solo instruments. Very clear and fast transients and highest treble. The rooms don't seem to colorate or add decay or "ringing" to the sound. I hate that I'll have to wait until summer to hear these playing stereo!
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what? Are you that patient? I would blow a fuse waiting that long! 😀
the spectrogram looks unusually good!
You Finns are really lucky to have so much unspoilt nature at your feet..
Some progress with xo version 4
same setup as previous v3 (without tweeter waveguide)
xo 200/800/5000
PEQ and levels/driver adjusted for better dispersion and some "body" at 400-1000Hz
30¤ spl leveled maximally flat above 1kHz
60¤ attenuation extremely even from 200Hz up!!!
a comparison of AINOproto v3 vs. Hifitalo AW-7 (SEAS T18REX/ACG coaxial)
same setup as previous v3 (without tweeter waveguide)
xo 200/800/5000
PEQ and levels/driver adjusted for better dispersion and some "body" at 400-1000Hz
30¤ spl leveled maximally flat above 1kHz
60¤ attenuation extremely even from 200Hz up!!!
a comparison of AINOproto v3 vs. Hifitalo AW-7 (SEAS T18REX/ACG coaxial)
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AINOproto v5
Response of each driver was adjusted to follow LR2 or LR4 curve better. Respnse was tuned to hale a 2dB shelf 1-2kHz at 30¤ angle.
The measurements were taken from distance of 1,8m which resulted in better bass behaviour (room modes).
I am quite happy now. Next development is to make a 100mm wide baffle for the MTM part (120mm at present) This is supposed to give better directivity in 2-3kHz region. Also the HM drivers will be placed closer to each other. With two LMHMTHM tower I can play stereophonic! One (sub)bass box should be adequate until I can make the final AINO-glass imitation "boxes"
A friend will bisit me tomorrow. He will teach me to use ARTA. Then I can show you directivity and distortion plots!
Response of each driver was adjusted to follow LR2 or LR4 curve better. Respnse was tuned to hale a 2dB shelf 1-2kHz at 30¤ angle.
The measurements were taken from distance of 1,8m which resulted in better bass behaviour (room modes).
I am quite happy now. Next development is to make a 100mm wide baffle for the MTM part (120mm at present) This is supposed to give better directivity in 2-3kHz region. Also the HM drivers will be placed closer to each other. With two LMHMTHM tower I can play stereophonic! One (sub)bass box should be adequate until I can make the final AINO-glass imitation "boxes"
A friend will bisit me tomorrow. He will teach me to use ARTA. Then I can show you directivity and distortion plots!
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To reach that goal it is mandatory to stay well away from the dip right to the dipole peak - which you clearly haven't achieved yet in the MTM region.
This will not be enough. Keep in mind that you have to add the baffle depth to the baffle width - and that at both sides! Your baffle is far too thick!!!
I reckon the baffle to be 2 cm thick. If your baffle is 10 cm wide, you have to simulate a 14 cm wide baffle in Edge.
My midrange driver is 10,6 cm wide and has no baffle at all. 13 cm drivers (without baffle) already showed converging off-axis-curves at 3 kHz. You probably need to reduce the MTM baffle width to the width of the drivers and keep its depth to 1 cm or below. Even then your X-over frequency could be too high. Probably 3 kHz will be the maximum. But the tweeter may not like it.
Rudolf
In this particular post the simulation in Edge shows the driver "off" of the baffle. (the graph background color is a tip off) Such a simulation is not accurate. Second time I've seen that in this thread ... just thought I'd give you a heads up 😉
Hi Juha, it was a pleasure to finally get a chance to listening and see prototype of Aino gradient. Hopefully is possible listen Aino gradient also in living room in future! It was a nice day and enough of coffee and buns 🙂
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thank you guys!
Rudolf, I am about to make a new proto2 baffle of a floor laminate board, 100mm wide and 8mm thick. The MDF board the proto1 has is 16mm. Results tomorrow!
Pieskapov was here yesterday and we installed ARTA and perhaps tomorrow some graphs with it. I found out also that I had the mic calibration file also in soundcard settings - duplicated effect! No wonder the tweeters were hard to mate!
The bass of 26ROY is wonderful - 26Hz (B0) note can be heard with minimimal distortion!
Today it was raining and I played with GD/delay setting and phase matching. Every small change had strange effects...
AINOproto v6 finished for today!
W SEAS xo 220Hz LR24dB
LM Beyma xo 800Hz LR12dB
HM Vifa xo 3200Hz BW30dB inv. polarity
T Fountek 3.5H with waveguide, inv. polarity
Doesn't that distortion look good?
Some screenshots...
Rudolf, I am about to make a new proto2 baffle of a floor laminate board, 100mm wide and 8mm thick. The MDF board the proto1 has is 16mm. Results tomorrow!
Pieskapov was here yesterday and we installed ARTA and perhaps tomorrow some graphs with it. I found out also that I had the mic calibration file also in soundcard settings - duplicated effect! No wonder the tweeters were hard to mate!
The bass of 26ROY is wonderful - 26Hz (B0) note can be heard with minimimal distortion!
Today it was raining and I played with GD/delay setting and phase matching. Every small change had strange effects...
AINOproto v6 finished for today!
W SEAS xo 220Hz LR24dB
LM Beyma xo 800Hz LR12dB
HM Vifa xo 3200Hz BW30dB inv. polarity
T Fountek 3.5H with waveguide, inv. polarity
Doesn't that distortion look good?
Some screenshots...
