As for me, I was rather skeptical about the new clocks. but I should probably write what set I use them in: LifePo4 mkIII+UCMateConditioner 5V +UCHybrid's 3.3V , StationPi,RPi4,BridgePi +Amanero,ReceiverPi,FiFoPiQ7,HDMIPi Pro and via I2S to my Dac... fifopi power is independent for clean and "dirty" side ,receiver and hdmipi powered directly from lifepo...and so far, replacing the clocks from accusilicon to crystek or accu 45MHz to 90MHz was actually on the verge of perception, sc-pure could be noticed immediately. And that's all. at least in my case. And I didn't say anything about SQ...
one more thing: I've been using Ian's modules since the first group buy Fifo, before fifopi, then with TP buffalo dac (ess9018!) and after years of experiments with clocks and insulators, I think I can say whether there is a difference in the clocks or not. I'm not deaf yet.
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I think you did the right thing by moderating possible astronomical expectations. It's important to remember that even the best watches have their limitations. They cannot create a sound that is not contained in the source material. Interesting that you no longer use a Teradak filter board between the FifoPi and TransportAES. I think that this board can make the sound more spacious and realistic.
@
How could Teradac filter board make a music more spaceous if it is not contained in the source material?
RonaldWi12
How could Teradac filter board make a music more spaceous if it is not contained in the source material?
Hello,
I have Muse 8/296 combo. Did you manage to connect the 296 DAC to the FifoPi via i2s?
Yeah thanks, today I made a quick method of comparing the SC-Pure and Accus by resampling function in Foobar and heard no significant difference between them, just still some serious deterioration from my previous setup with Accus only. Could be happening only for two reasons:
1. Missing Teradak board or
2. suboptimal routing of U.FL cable (which I felt from the beginning it's not good, but chose to ignore for the time being)
So today dedicated time to remake the cabling to be able to return the Teradak board and to reroute the u.fl cable, which is now shielded from clocks and is keeping >3 cm distance from other cables as a bonus.
Whichever of those points made the difference, I'm back to that stellar virtual vortex of (un)real music :]
Still cannot comment on clocks performance comparison, way to soon imo, just wanted to give some heads-up to receivers of SC-Pure to take care of u.fl cable routing, considering the increased height of these clocks (easy cure: get some GPIO spacer if you're stacking
)Attachments
@miklau has provided some info on this board on page 477 along with this link: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtAAFzG
I'll just repeat the obvious difference that Teradak has caps on the top side, whereas ShieldPi Pro on the bottom, so in some cases the clearance could be an issue. Then there are differences in actual shield implementation, but as always let the ears be the judge, not theories
I personally use ShieldPi above the Pi, which is also covered by this heatsink as a primary shield https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001691525070.html
(There are versions for all Pi variants elsewhere..)
I'll just repeat the obvious difference that Teradak has caps on the top side, whereas ShieldPi Pro on the bottom, so in some cases the clearance could be an issue. Then there are differences in actual shield implementation, but as always let the ears be the judge, not theories
I personally use ShieldPi above the Pi, which is also covered by this heatsink as a primary shield
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001691525070.html(There are versions for all Pi variants elsewhere..)
The ShieldPiProMk II has fixed the clearance issues and won’t get in the way of a Pi heat sink anymore and also has other functions like a switch to be able to safe shutdown the Pi as well as start it up from a shutdown. Also the IR function when installed with a MonitorPi.
I am thinking it’s hard to compare clocks. By the time you replace them you’ve forgotten the exact sound. Unless you do what gabster did in video it’s hard. I don’t hear a huge difference.
So far maybe a deeper soundstage and the bass somehow sounds tighter maybe. But I wonder if I am dreaming these things up. I will wait a week to allow the burn in. Meanwhile I am playing stuff through the clocks many hours per day. They maybe sound like they have a bit of an edge that disappeared after the first two weeks with the original DAC.
So far maybe a deeper soundstage and the bass somehow sounds tighter maybe. But I wonder if I am dreaming these things up. I will wait a week to allow the burn in. Meanwhile I am playing stuff through the clocks many hours per day. They maybe sound like they have a bit of an edge that disappeared after the first two weeks with the original DAC.
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Yeah thanks, today I made a quick method of comparing the SC-Pure and Accus by resampling function in Foobar and heard no significant difference between them, just still some serious deterioration from my previous setup with Accus only. Could be happening only for two reasons:
1. Missing Teradak board or
2. suboptimal routing of U.FL cable (which I felt from the beginning it's not good, but chose to ignore for the time being)
So today dedicated time to remake the cabling to be able to return the Teradak board and to reroute the u.fl cable, which is now shielded from clocks and is keeping >3 cm distance from other cables as a bonus.
Whichever of those points made the difference, I'm back to that stellar virtual vortex of (un)real music :]
Still cannot comment on clocks performance comparison, way to soon imo, just wanted to give some heads-up to receivers of SC-Pure to take care of u.fl cable routing, considering the increased height of these clocks (easy cure: get some GPIO spacer if you're stacking
FWIW, I have been through four layers of clocks, each with improved phase noise.Yeah thanks, today I made a quick method of comparing the SC-Pure and Accus by resampling function in Foobar and heard no significant difference between them, just still some serious deterioration from my previous setup with Accus only. Could be happening only for two reasons:
1. Missing Teradak board or
2. suboptimal routing of U.FL cable (which I felt from the beginning it's not good, but chose to ignore for the time being)
So today dedicated time to remake the cabling to be able to return the Teradak board and to reroute the u.fl cable, which is now shielded from clocks and is keeping >3 cm distance from other cables as a bonus.
Whichever of those points made the difference, I'm back to that stellar virtual vortex of (un)real music :]
Still cannot comment on clocks performance comparison, way to soon imo, just wanted to give some heads-up to receivers of SC-Pure to take care of u.fl cable routing, considering the increased height of these clocks (easy cure: get some GPIO spacer if you're stacking
IMHO, all things considered, improved phase noise results in improved digital sound proportional to the phase noise.
That said, it is important to note two things.
Not everyone sees it for many reasons, and there also are other variables that can more than offset these subtle differences.
Many things in the digital chain can mess with the sound with bigger impact than the phase noise spec of your clock. I have struggled with ufl connectors and even SMA connectors. But when you get it right, everything contributes in the same way. Less digititis. More analogue. Better micro detail. All contributing to a natural deeper expression of the recorded sound. To me well worth the effort. But always on that thin margin that is important to some of us and imperceptible to others. To me its essential.. but do not expect to lay down your money and have a transformative experience. Sometimes yes, and sometimes no.
Hello,
SO is there a way to speed up the burn in process of the clocks. WHAT is happening during burn in? It is not like a 15 inch Altec woofer which suspension needs to have a massage so to say.
Maybe if we have a clue what is happening we could compose a kind frequency sweep that you could play for some days 24 hours continuously .
So after a week or two using the crown jewels your spouse will ask one of your audiophile friends to put back your old clocks because she found out the reason you start buying bread at Aldi instead of at the local bakery. When you switch on your gear will you feel a bit uncomfortable and blame it on being tired?
A few days later your friend will visit you and praise your set but you will tell him there is something you cannot grasp. Maybe you should drink home brew beer while enjoying music.
If you need to hear the old and the new clock at the flick of a switch to hear the difference then you surely did made the wrong investment. The old one gave you loads of pleasure and the new one a little more. The old one is a class D amp and the new is a class A with a handful of parts? They are both the same class A but one has a toriodal transformer and the other one has an old fashioned EI core with a static screen?
Some people wrote that the display changes the sound a tiny bit. So if you get expensive clocks only use display for analysis . Remember all the gear that gave you the possibility to switch off the display. Why do you need to see that you are listening to kind of blue you will hear it. Info is nice on your tablet to go through your collection.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s improving acoustics gave me a really good return on investment
SO is there a way to speed up the burn in process of the clocks. WHAT is happening during burn in? It is not like a 15 inch Altec woofer which suspension needs to have a massage so to say.
Maybe if we have a clue what is happening we could compose a kind frequency sweep that you could play for some days 24 hours continuously .
So after a week or two using the crown jewels your spouse will ask one of your audiophile friends to put back your old clocks because she found out the reason you start buying bread at Aldi instead of at the local bakery. When you switch on your gear will you feel a bit uncomfortable and blame it on being tired?
A few days later your friend will visit you and praise your set but you will tell him there is something you cannot grasp. Maybe you should drink home brew beer while enjoying music.
If you need to hear the old and the new clock at the flick of a switch to hear the difference then you surely did made the wrong investment. The old one gave you loads of pleasure and the new one a little more. The old one is a class D amp and the new is a class A with a handful of parts? They are both the same class A but one has a toriodal transformer and the other one has an old fashioned EI core with a static screen?
Some people wrote that the display changes the sound a tiny bit. So if you get expensive clocks only use display for analysis . Remember all the gear that gave you the possibility to switch off the display. Why do you need to see that you are listening to kind of blue you will hear it. Info is nice on your tablet to go through your collection.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s improving acoustics gave me a really good return on investment
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Hi eduard
FWIW, IMHO there is only one way to burn in a clock. Give it power.
It cannot matter if you play heavy metal or Beethoven. It either oscillates at it's intended frequency or it doesn't.
So what leads to burn in or not depends on your system. If your system is fancy and turns off power to your clock when it is not playing music, then it's not burning in unless it's playing music. In most cases, both clocks will be powered, and the system chooses which clock signal to use.
In my system it is simple. I use only one clock at 5MHz. It is powered 7/24 for the past few years and it's oven is set for 85C and it's always at it's best. Even though that seems simple, I am convinced the system sounds slightly better if I cycle power on the clock upon start of listening session. So I do. I don't worry about whether this is a real or imagined improvement. I just indulge myself and enjoy the music. I also reboot the Rpi while the triodes all heat for 30 mins.
PS, nice looking listening space you have there
FWIW, IMHO there is only one way to burn in a clock. Give it power.
It cannot matter if you play heavy metal or Beethoven. It either oscillates at it's intended frequency or it doesn't.
So what leads to burn in or not depends on your system. If your system is fancy and turns off power to your clock when it is not playing music, then it's not burning in unless it's playing music. In most cases, both clocks will be powered, and the system chooses which clock signal to use.
In my system it is simple. I use only one clock at 5MHz. It is powered 7/24 for the past few years and it's oven is set for 85C and it's always at it's best. Even though that seems simple, I am convinced the system sounds slightly better if I cycle power on the clock upon start of listening session. So I do. I don't worry about whether this is a real or imagined improvement. I just indulge myself and enjoy the music. I also reboot the Rpi while the triodes all heat for 30 mins.
PS, nice looking listening space you have there
Here's an idea: Run pink noise continuously with the volume up some. I've done this with speakers and other audio gear to break components in. Perhaps if you have a headphone jack on one of your components, you can use a cheap set of headphones plugged in without having to listen to the pink noise over your speakers. This may be one way to burn the clocks in better. YMMV
Pink Noise
Pink Noise
Great points Eduard and very nice acoustics treatment.
Re monitor, I agree. But I still think it’s a nice feature. In my system I have a streamer with a display with FIFoPiQ7 and HDMIPro sending the music over i2S to the DAC stack which again has a ReceiverPiPro FifoPiq7, DAC and OPA861.
So I am assuming any ‘noise’ induced by that small display is getting reclocked out of the stream by the second reclocker? Maybe this is not the case. I am not sure. But I like component systems even digital.
The monitor can also be turned off with software so no scan lines are being made. The 2 monitor pi’s I use can also be ‘muted’.
So I think in the end with the expense I have put into separating the two stacks and double re-clocking it is a good compromise. However it would be cool if I could measure it. And the other digital inputs go directly into the DAC.
Great conversations on this forum.
OK... run pink noise. Or a 1929 movie. Or unplug it from the DAC and put it in a closet. If you are burning in a clock, it doesn't matter if it connected to a DAC that is or is not playing music... a clock simply makes a plus and minus signal at a given frequency.
If you are burning in the DAC or the rest of the system, sure, be curious about what it plays to exercise it's full range. Clocks don't make music or care if they are part of a stereo or living in a gps satellite. They do get better with time under power. But what you use their signal for makes no difference to the burn in.