I am looking for a good DVD player.
He must not necessarily support all formats.
Really important to me is just best possible picture and best possible sound for playing just ordinary video dvd's both pressed versions and burned versions (from television concerts). SACD, DVD-Audio, PCM (normal CD) and various other exotic formats not necessarily have to be supported.
But two additional things are very important for me:
1) There must be available a good documentation (service manual)
2) Laser-Unit (optical pick up) must have a long live time and must good available as replacement part.
3) The loader/mechanism must have brushless disc motor (spindle motor) and reliable clamper assembly
From CD-Player I know, that Nr. 2) was the case by the brands from Pioneer (own laser pickups like PEA/PWY series) and JVC (also own laser pick up's like Optima series), independend of the purchase price (i. e. all that cd players runs still until this day, if there is no other part failured). The worst were / are here all from SONY and all the other brands with SONY KSS pickup inside (in respect to lifetime and reliability)
This knowledge unfortunately I haven't about dvd players.
Additional there are much more different dvd player models on the marked than cd player models.
Perhaps the models about follow URLs could meet my requirements, but I am not sure.
1) Pioneer DVD717 (DVD-717)
http://cache-cdn.kalaydo.de/mmo/8/245/192/98_-751839077.jpg
http://www.avclub.gr/forum/showthread.php/76467-DVD-player-Pioneer-DV-717
http://staniu.blogspot.com/
2) others
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...i-rez-stereo-pcm-output-sacd-dvd-hdcd-28.html
Pioneer DV-575A-K (DV-575 A-K, DV-575A -K, DV575, DV575A-K) (schwarz) - Pioneer Multiplayer
Pioneer DV-575A, -578A, -585A und -588A Hires SACD und DVD-A digital output Bausatz
Maybe some members can give me better recommendations.
He must not necessarily support all formats.
Really important to me is just best possible picture and best possible sound for playing just ordinary video dvd's both pressed versions and burned versions (from television concerts). SACD, DVD-Audio, PCM (normal CD) and various other exotic formats not necessarily have to be supported.
But two additional things are very important for me:
1) There must be available a good documentation (service manual)
2) Laser-Unit (optical pick up) must have a long live time and must good available as replacement part.
3) The loader/mechanism must have brushless disc motor (spindle motor) and reliable clamper assembly
From CD-Player I know, that Nr. 2) was the case by the brands from Pioneer (own laser pickups like PEA/PWY series) and JVC (also own laser pick up's like Optima series), independend of the purchase price (i. e. all that cd players runs still until this day, if there is no other part failured). The worst were / are here all from SONY and all the other brands with SONY KSS pickup inside (in respect to lifetime and reliability)
This knowledge unfortunately I haven't about dvd players.
Additional there are much more different dvd player models on the marked than cd player models.
Perhaps the models about follow URLs could meet my requirements, but I am not sure.
1) Pioneer DVD717 (DVD-717)
http://cache-cdn.kalaydo.de/mmo/8/245/192/98_-751839077.jpg
http://www.avclub.gr/forum/showthread.php/76467-DVD-player-Pioneer-DV-717
http://staniu.blogspot.com/
2) others
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...i-rez-stereo-pcm-output-sacd-dvd-hdcd-28.html
Pioneer DV-575A-K (DV-575 A-K, DV-575A -K, DV575, DV575A-K) (schwarz) - Pioneer Multiplayer
Pioneer DV-575A, -578A, -585A und -588A Hires SACD und DVD-A digital output Bausatz
Maybe some members can give me better recommendations.
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The DV717 appears to be same generation as the USA model DV434/525/37/38. It's about the third least reliable dvd laser I've encountered. Sadly, the otherwise lovely DV-AX10 also uses the same transport.
The DV575=DV578 here. This generation, also usa models DV563/45a/47a/47ai/59avi/79avi, use the MOST reliable laser & mech(w/brushless pm) I have yet seen. I have a 45A running literally 24hrs/7days as my shop dvd player. Great piece. The 575/578 use the very strangely great sounding, ultra-cheap PCM1742 dac chip. First time I upgraded a 578, I was shocked at how great it sounded. The Elite models up to DV79avi, all use the PCM1738, another very good chip(not as good as a well done PCM1702/04 ladder dac, but surprisingly not far off at all). The 79avi is by far the best one to get. It has an r-core transformer/linear supply for the dac & output stages, and comes stock with my favorite OPA2134's. In usa, these have dropped down to $150-250 for a mint, working unit(of course, rarely break). Video on all of the above is quite excellent, to my eyes, especially from hdmi out found on 79avi & 59avi. The next generation, sadly, e.g., DV-46/48/58, have horrible reliability, both of laser & ultra cheap brush motor on platter. Just terrible. But you will not regret buying any of the 575 thru 79avi generation.
The DV575=DV578 here. This generation, also usa models DV563/45a/47a/47ai/59avi/79avi, use the MOST reliable laser & mech(w/brushless pm) I have yet seen. I have a 45A running literally 24hrs/7days as my shop dvd player. Great piece. The 575/578 use the very strangely great sounding, ultra-cheap PCM1742 dac chip. First time I upgraded a 578, I was shocked at how great it sounded. The Elite models up to DV79avi, all use the PCM1738, another very good chip(not as good as a well done PCM1702/04 ladder dac, but surprisingly not far off at all). The 79avi is by far the best one to get. It has an r-core transformer/linear supply for the dac & output stages, and comes stock with my favorite OPA2134's. In usa, these have dropped down to $150-250 for a mint, working unit(of course, rarely break). Video on all of the above is quite excellent, to my eyes, especially from hdmi out found on 79avi & 59avi. The next generation, sadly, e.g., DV-46/48/58, have horrible reliability, both of laser & ultra cheap brush motor on platter. Just terrible. But you will not regret buying any of the 575 thru 79avi generation.
My experience with Denon:
I have a Denon 2910 - made in 2005. No isses with the laser, Universal audio player (CD/HDCD/DVD-A/SACD) plus processes DVD via Faroodja cip. I like it because has a bug that allows play of SACD-R.
I don't care too much about laser life - in my experience, it took some 30 minutes to replace one in a Denon DVD-2930CI and seems (till now) that the replacement lasts better than the original part. I have got four laser replacements from eBay for some 10-12$ a pice. Video chip is Realta Reon VX-50 HQV - better than Faroodja one.
Purelly for video quality I would look at a Denon DVD-3930CI (or higher) - video chip is Realta T2 HQV. One of the best ot there.
I have a Denon 2910 - made in 2005. No isses with the laser, Universal audio player (CD/HDCD/DVD-A/SACD) plus processes DVD via Faroodja cip. I like it because has a bug that allows play of SACD-R.
I don't care too much about laser life - in my experience, it took some 30 minutes to replace one in a Denon DVD-2930CI and seems (till now) that the replacement lasts better than the original part. I have got four laser replacements from eBay for some 10-12$ a pice. Video chip is Realta Reon VX-50 HQV - better than Faroodja one.
Purelly for video quality I would look at a Denon DVD-3930CI (or higher) - video chip is Realta T2 HQV. One of the best ot there.
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Thank you very much for this advices about your experience.
By looking to the dvd player devices from the good old high end companies like Primare, Naim Audio (DVD-5) and Meridian I often discover DVS Loader from
?????? WELCOM TO DVS KOREA ??????
(mostly DSL710A/DSL-710A) and mechanism together with Hitachi's optical pick up HOPM-1200 versions.
What about this stuff concerning lifetime and reliability ?
Even by player "Only CD" this stuff is often inside.
Here some URLs and attached pics:
Nintaus N9901 repairs drive problem will not play dvd
http://www.naimaudio.com/userfiles/modules/attachment/old_product_manual_dvd5_av2_manual.pdf
Naim. DVD5, Ñåðèÿ N, Ñåðèÿ Õ. - audio-cinema.net.
http://www.speakerscorner-hifi.de/pix/Gebrauchte/NAIM_DVD_5.jpg
DVS DSL-710A DVD ROM LINN AYRE HARMAN MERIDIAN PRIMARE | eBay
Meridian 596 DVD-Video Player & Meridian 598 DVD-Audio/Video Player!!!!!!!!
http://www.meridian-audio.info/public/596[91].pdf
Attachments
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DSL-710 carry audio CDP-1 open.jpg -
DSL-710A Arcam DV-29.jpg -
DSL-710A Loader top-bottom.jpg -
DSL-710A Primare CD-21 1389305_1.jpg -
DVS HOP1200 mechanism RN00.jpg -
DVS-DSL710A mechanism.pdf
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DSL-720A + Hitachi HOPM-1200.jpg -
DSL-710A sticker 1389305_2.jpg -
DSL-710A open + Hit HOPM-1200+MT1388.jpg -
hop_-1200s_109.jpg
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obviously, model DSL710A is also available in different versions - here an example without without metal enclosure (iron housing/sheet metal housing/shielding cabinet - I don't know the right english term)
A peek at a BI-600E
A peek at a BI-600E
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I have the DSL710 in an Apex AD-3201 (DVD/HDCD/CD/mp3) that I bought in 2000 - see below pic. Still works. Video cipset Zoran Vaddis IV, DAC BB PCM1745.
The same laser (HOP1200R) is found in the Denon 2910 that I was telling you about above (2005 and still working).
The same laser (HOP1200R) is found in the Denon 2910 that I was telling you about above (2005 and still working).
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IT IS A MIRACLE when a DSL710 and anything else with a Hitachi dvd laser holds up for more than a year. The HOP1200 series is the most disastrously unreliable dvd laser I have yet seen, short of the 1st gen Panasonic VED0378. Worse, though, is that very often the drive electronics fail in the DSL710. It is pure garbage, and the only reason so many makers use it is it is CHEAP, just like the horrid CDM12 cd junk. Lasts usually long enough to make it through warranty, and after that, they just don't care. Denon, Rotel, Naim, etc., are perfectly happy to make money selling overpriced replacements, and don't seem to give a damn how much damage this practice does to their reputations.
Seriously, Sonic person, WHY do people like you continue buying such things that have such a pitifully bad reliability record? Why are you not all getting together to file class action suits against Denon & etc. for intentionally selling defective gear? Would you buy a car that has an engine that you know is unlikely to make it past 10,000 miles, as long as the engine is really cheap to replace? Can't be about sound performance, as far as Denon is concerned. I blew away a DVD5910, soundly enough that the Denon's owner was appalled, with $300 worth of upgraded AA Dac-in-the-box, with it's 18bit AS1860's. I've never a/b'd video performance, but even if the current top Denon has some advantage over a DV-79/575/etc., I seriously doubt it is by enough to make any sensible person want to put up with laser replacements every year or two(or worse). And, dude, you post a photo of your 2910 as if it's a great looking build. Seriously? I wouldn't be showing off the internals if I built that unit.
Seriously, Sonic person, WHY do people like you continue buying such things that have such a pitifully bad reliability record? Why are you not all getting together to file class action suits against Denon & etc. for intentionally selling defective gear? Would you buy a car that has an engine that you know is unlikely to make it past 10,000 miles, as long as the engine is really cheap to replace? Can't be about sound performance, as far as Denon is concerned. I blew away a DVD5910, soundly enough that the Denon's owner was appalled, with $300 worth of upgraded AA Dac-in-the-box, with it's 18bit AS1860's. I've never a/b'd video performance, but even if the current top Denon has some advantage over a DV-79/575/etc., I seriously doubt it is by enough to make any sensible person want to put up with laser replacements every year or two(or worse). And, dude, you post a photo of your 2910 as if it's a great looking build. Seriously? I wouldn't be showing off the internals if I built that unit.
Sorry, my experience is different. And whae the Sanyo SF-HD65 failed in another player it took me 30 minutes to replace it and that one is still working.
The DSL710 was used in Apex players in 2000 - I see them still working in the trift stores/cash converters in the area that I live, so mine in not really an exception.
I really think that, with the lasers, is more a issue with quality control - they are so cheam that don't test them in factory. They get tested in the players. If you get a good one, it will last.
The picture that I post above is for the Apex AD-3201, to show the DSL710. Denon does NOT have that unit, just the same laser.
PS: I don't sell nothing, just sharing my experience. And I only bought ONE player at full price in store - the Apex AD-3201. The rest from eBay or discounted (DVD-2930 was 160$ new at Vann's). I would never pay the full price asked for top of line components.
If you are curious, below are the Denon DVD-2910 and DVD-2930:
The DSL710 was used in Apex players in 2000 - I see them still working in the trift stores/cash converters in the area that I live, so mine in not really an exception.
I really think that, with the lasers, is more a issue with quality control - they are so cheam that don't test them in factory. They get tested in the players. If you get a good one, it will last.
The picture that I post above is for the Apex AD-3201, to show the DSL710. Denon does NOT have that unit, just the same laser.
PS: I don't sell nothing, just sharing my experience. And I only bought ONE player at full price in store - the Apex AD-3201. The rest from eBay or discounted (DVD-2930 was 160$ new at Vann's). I would never pay the full price asked for top of line components.
If you are curious, below are the Denon DVD-2910 and DVD-2930:
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Sorry I maybe sounded a bit hostile there. It's just that when a company like Denon continues, over and over, to use lasers & mechs in expensive gear that they clearly KNOW is totally junk for reliability, it makes me really annoyed when people on here, even those that talk about how many times they've replaced their lasers, act like it's totally OK for a company to build things like that. Denon's first dvd unit used the disastrous VED0378, but this was forgivable, as it was too early to know how bad they would be. So they shift to the Hitachi/DSL in the 2900 series. Maybe they didn't know this would be 2nd worst choice possible, but they CLEARLY knew how bad the reliability was by the 2910, as I was Denon warranty at this time & replaced LOTS of hop1200's in warranty on 2900 series. This was nail-in-coffin time for Denon, as far as my respect for them. Then they shift to the very well known to be terrible SF-HD65, and that's when it became utterly and completely clear to me that they did not give a damn about the customers getting gear that could be counted on much past the warranty period. Hence, my rather seething contempt for what used to be a good company.
I agree that sometimes manufacturers cut corners in the weirder places. Denon put a lot of costs in the digital audio processing (DSP upsampling) and video sections and used cheaper OpAmps and lasers to compensate. OpAmps are the first that I replace in a player.
Maybe in the lasers case they didn't have other choise. Even Pioneer/Panasonic, that you say it used to have better lasers, caved in to the market.
Maybe in the lasers case they didn't have other choise. Even Pioneer/Panasonic, that you say it used to have better lasers, caved in to the market.
I'm interested in sound quality first and video quality second, not in lowest price.
What model(s) do you have in mind?
Thanks.
Between those 2 models, which on has a better audio and video quality?
In which one is it easier to change the audio output OpAmps?
3930 has better video processor, 5910 has better audio.
Both have SMD OpAmps. You need a steady hand and something like ChipQuick to desolder them.
The DVD-5910 has as DAC the PCM1792 (one in mono mode for each L and R channel on stereo and one for each surround pair of channels - total of five DAC's). I/V stage - OP275 on stereo and NJM2068 on multich. As filter stage NJM2068.
The DVD-3930 has as DAC the PCM1796 (one in mono mode for each L and R channel on stereo and one for each surround pair of channels - total of five DAC's). I/V stage is the BA15218F and filters are NJM2068 or BA15218F.
I like their AL24 Processing - done with dedicated DSP's (AD or TI).
Both have SMD OpAmps. You need a steady hand and something like ChipQuick to desolder them.
The DVD-5910 has as DAC the PCM1792 (one in mono mode for each L and R channel on stereo and one for each surround pair of channels - total of five DAC's). I/V stage - OP275 on stereo and NJM2068 on multich. As filter stage NJM2068.
The DVD-3930 has as DAC the PCM1796 (one in mono mode for each L and R channel on stereo and one for each surround pair of channels - total of five DAC's). I/V stage is the BA15218F and filters are NJM2068 or BA15218F.
I like their AL24 Processing - done with dedicated DSP's (AD or TI).
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I think you will find that a stock Pioneer DV-79avi at the least keeps up with any Denon on video quality, and better on audio quality, while being HUGELY more reliable. As I keep saying, this generation of Pioneers were the best reliability I've yet seen, and I am a very long time service professional, so this is expert opinion here. If you have a $1000+ budget, the next step up, IMO, is the Pioneer BDP-09FD, their gorgeously built blu-ray, which they sadly discontinued & didn't replace. At least as yet.
Audio: for regular CD or HDCD it doesn't. Denon AL24 Processing improves the reproduction especially for 16 bit formats. Plus it decodes properly the HDCD, does not converts DSD to PCM while playing SACD's.
Video: I don't know what kind of processor has Panasonic better than Realta HQV or even the lower Realta VX (from Denon DVD-2930).
Video: I don't know what kind of processor has Panasonic better than Realta HQV or even the lower Realta VX (from Denon DVD-2930).
Now I took a look on the Panasonic DV-79Davi and I see the video processor they have is called "T-Rex". Don't know to much about it, so... I don't know 
On the audio part, as DAC they use PCM1738 and OPA2134 for L/R channels (an OK OpAmp) and NE5532 for rest. But PCM1738 (a very good DAC) is not same as good as PCM1792 - especially when latter is used in mono mode...
Looks like DSD is not converted either (good) - uses the same Sony DSD processor.
No separated 2 channel out with dedicated DAC's in mono mode - like Denon from above.
On the audio part, as DAC they use PCM1738 and OPA2134 for L/R channels (an OK OpAmp) and NE5532 for rest. But PCM1738 (a very good DAC) is not same as good as PCM1792 - especially when latter is used in mono mode...
Looks like DSD is not converted either (good) - uses the same Sony DSD processor.
No separated 2 channel out with dedicated DAC's in mono mode - like Denon from above.
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