Though the high efficiency might not be needed for the ICTA - if you are looking for a interesting new mid - give the JA8008 a try - (you might have to check out world wide distribution for all your fans).
This speaker is done by SEAS as a solid platform and many of the good ideas and know how available in this company is cast in this driver.
The sonic balance Troels has achieved is really beautiful IMO.
Also good bang for the buck.
Michael
This speaker is done by SEAS as a solid platform and many of the good ideas and know how available in this company is cast in this driver.
The sonic balance Troels has achieved is really beautiful IMO.
Also good bang for the buck.
Michael
mige0 said:Though the high efficiency might not be needed for the ICTA - if you are looking for a interesting new mid - give the JA8008 a try - (you might have to check out world wide distribution for all your fans).
This speaker is done by SEAS as a solid platform and many of the good ideas and know how available in this company is cast in this driver.
The sonic balance Troels has achieved is really beautiful IMO.
Also good bang for the buck.
Michael
Thanks for this tip, Michael.
Troels' design for this with the Audax TWO34XO-P47N tweeter and waveguide looks promising. I am wondering whether it would make a good small monitor with separate subs of the Goldwood 18"-in-H-baffle variety.
Eventually I would like to try the JA 8008 in my OB project....in the meantime I ordered the Eminence Beta 8 as a poorer replacement. JA 8008= $350 + shipping; Beta 8 = $54 delivered.
I'll also be trying the Troels designed tweeter waveguide for the Audax and vintage JBL LE26. I'll be using it with the LE26. The waveguides were Jantzen special order (4-6 weeks) through Parts Express. I think they were about $65 each.
For the bottom end I'll be trying (because they're laying around) vintage JBL d130f, boosted with Graham's T-bass circuit.
We'll see !
I'll also be trying the Troels designed tweeter waveguide for the Audax and vintage JBL LE26. I'll be using it with the LE26. The waveguides were Jantzen special order (4-6 weeks) through Parts Express. I think they were about $65 each.
For the bottom end I'll be trying (because they're laying around) vintage JBL d130f, boosted with Graham's T-bass circuit.
We'll see !
ScottG said:
EACH. Unconscionable IMO.
Sorry - didn't and don't feel ripped at all having bought four of them - quite in contrary - any other of the "usual suspects" in high eff / non PA are even more expensive (also whizzer cone full range mostly), and the SEAS "exotics" being roughly twice the price - but I see the problem for non Europeans at the moment.
Seems to be kind of a new experience that US people have to pay high prices (at least as they feel about) whereas Europeans still can buy at considerable prices (what they are used to so far).
Much the other way around as it was for a long time - always have been a bit jealos that all the fancy electronics / cars and a lot of other goods been so much cheaper anywhere else then in good ol Europe..
All in all the JA8008 ain't the best recommendation – from a mere commercial point of view - I guess
Michael
mige0 said:
Sorry - didn't and don't feel ripped at all having bought four of them - quite in contrary - any other of the "usual suspects" in high eff / non PA are even more expensive (also whizzer cone full range mostly), and the SEAS "exotics" being roughly twice the price - but I see the problem for non Europeans at the moment.
Seems to be kind of a new experience that US people have to pay high prices (at least as they feel about) whereas Europeans still can buy at considerable prices (what they are used to so far).
Much the other way around as it was for a long time - always have been a bit jealos that all the fancy electronics / cars and a lot of other goods been so much cheaper anywhere else then in good ol Europe..
All in all the JA8008 ain't the best recommendation – from a mere commercial point of view - I guess
Michael
No.. the "unconscionable" reference was not to value when compared to competing products, nor to exchange rates vs. the dollar.
The problem I have with this is that the driver has NOTHING that is *NOT* off-the-shelf from Seas itself. No special materials cost, no special tooling cost, no special labor cost.
IF Seas were to distribute this driver under the "prestige" brand it would be priced somewhere around 150 US each *max* (from a US distributor).
As it is - its more than double that price. THAT is unconscionable.
(..their "exotic" line does have additional cost, but they aren't anywhere near the premium that Seas is charging.. Basically it's a low volume run "niche" product that they can gouge those few customers for.)
BTW.. here is a *very* similar product from the prestige range. The rubber surround and coating reduce the efficiency.. but also reduce the driver's fs:
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=165
Note the price:
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=6948
Unfortunately I don't think US distributors carry this driver.. but I'm sure they could for very little premium beyond this price.
..an update on the potential partnered sub:
Rythmik Audio has partnered with GR Research, and is about to produce a 600 watt plate amp (4 ohms), while GR has produced some *potentially* more attractive drivers (IMO):
4 of these in parallel with the amp should work out rather nicely:
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=141
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=150
..while an aperiodic design would still be excellent, such a system could be used for a very high quality *Dipole* sub-woofer.
Rythmik Audio has partnered with GR Research, and is about to produce a 600 watt plate amp (4 ohms), while GR has produced some *potentially* more attractive drivers (IMO):
4 of these in parallel with the amp should work out rather nicely:
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=141
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=150
..while an aperiodic design would still be excellent, such a system could be used for a very high quality *Dipole* sub-woofer.
Well, I've already ordered the Beta 8. I haven't established the crossover points yet. The JBL Le26 tweeter can be crossed as low as 2k. Hmm...the JA8008 goes up to about 5.5k, the Beta 8 goes to a little over 4k , and the B&C goes to only 3k. It also looks like the B&C's octagonal frame would create some extra baffle work (for me, at least). Looks like a good driver though, and a good choice for something closer in price to the Beta 8 than to the JA8008. Thanks.
ScottG said:
Ok, I see.
On the other hand "value" by definition is a very sujective thing - especially in audio there isn't much correlation to any manufacturing costs.
Especially for small quotes the development overrides the manufacturing cost anyway.
Only thing the Jantzen really lacks, is a hyped and over priced comercial speaker that uses it.
Otherwise people would run after, no matter of manufacturing price.
As I once said - the JA8008 seems to have very much in common with Troel Gravesen personality - hence above is not likely to happen.
Good for the ones that are after the hidden pearls...
By the way, the cone material is different from any SEAS you can buy AFAIK , same for the tweaks applied to the surround - where I always have problemes with the usual Hifi typs - Troels has spotted that - and successfully worked out a cure.
Michael
mige0 said:
I had a rather long e-mail discussion with Troels about a year ago rgrding that driver and my conclsion is the same as Michael's -- Troels spent a lot of time (and money) with lots of drivers (incl exotica) before ending up with the JA8008. Moreover, his experience with SEAS drivers speaks volumes, and I would (double)guess (Troels) that he would be the first in using a lower cost SEAS.
According to that email conversations -- and the material on Troels site -- the reason for ending up with JA8008 was just as Michael explained: Cone material and surrounds (coated foam instead of rubber). AFAIK the SEAS driver that it was derived from is CA21REX.
Putting it simply: Given a choice, I would go for the JA8008 instead of a SEAS -- for once I perceive there is real value behind the added cost. But maybe that's just me.
My $0.02
Florian
I looked at the data sheet available for that driver. I have never listened to it. But the data gives me some reservations about the FR, Z and T/S. Compared to a HiFi driver, higher than typical BL, rather low Cms, typical Mms. Impedance seems to show a number of resonances. Compared to a prosound driver it doen't look all that diffrerent that a typical 8" midrange.