Hi,
I use a fully upgraded Wadia 9 DAC (really a fabulous DAC) that has only 3 ST optical inputs: it has no BNC nor anything else.
Actually I use a Belcanto Reflink, having a USB input, and a ST+BNC outputs.
The Reflink is the only device (that I know) having a ST output, and I am looking for something having a [BNC or TOSLINK] inputs, and a ST output.
Do you know any device that could offer a ST output ?
Thank you
I use a fully upgraded Wadia 9 DAC (really a fabulous DAC) that has only 3 ST optical inputs: it has no BNC nor anything else.
Actually I use a Belcanto Reflink, having a USB input, and a ST+BNC outputs.
The Reflink is the only device (that I know) having a ST output, and I am looking for something having a [BNC or TOSLINK] inputs, and a ST output.
Do you know any device that could offer a ST output ?
Thank you
Not sure if you are looking for something like:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/spdif-connections-explained-i70
https://www.showmecables.com/3-2-fo...2jAhl92EKdF9HUUHL8EHOS6uMUn8Hw6xoCIzYQAvD_BwE
Or maybe: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/... connector) A fiber,a bayonet plug and socket.
If the latter, it doesn't look like that optical SPDIF format has been used for long time.
EDIT: maybe something here: http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
https://www.lindy.co.uk/spdif-connections-explained-i70
https://www.showmecables.com/3-2-fo...2jAhl92EKdF9HUUHL8EHOS6uMUn8Hw6xoCIzYQAvD_BwE
Or maybe: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/... connector) A fiber,a bayonet plug and socket.
If the latter, it doesn't look like that optical SPDIF format has been used for long time.
EDIT: maybe something here: http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
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Hello,
I know the LIFATEC "solution" : an optic fiber with a Toslink connector on one side and a ST connector on the other side. This may be a solution although Lifatec says that there is no warranty of success...
I am looking for a device that would "electronically" convert BNC to ST, or a device that would "electronically" convert Toslink to ST,
Nobody knows ?
I know the LIFATEC "solution" : an optic fiber with a Toslink connector on one side and a ST connector on the other side. This may be a solution although Lifatec says that there is no warranty of success...
I am looking for a device that would "electronically" convert BNC to ST, or a device that would "electronically" convert Toslink to ST,
Nobody knows ?
To do it electronically, you might need something like this: https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/fibr...bd-st-connection-m-hfbr1414z-p285171.html?r=1
And something like this: https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/toslink-fiber-optic-receiving-modules/68177
Get the datasheets for the devices and figure out how to connect them together. It might also help to see if there a part number printed on the ST receiver modules in the dac. A datasheet for it may provide some more clues.
It may help to know that SPDIF and TOSLINK are the same data transfer protocol, they are just different types of physical interconnections. An I2S to SPDIF converter chip doesn't have to know which you are using, they are both the same thing to that chip. The only difference I know of so far is that the professional version of SPDIF called AES, besides having a different physical layer, also can treat data somewhat differently. If it turns out that your dac wants professional AES signaling, then you might need a chip to convert between standard SPDIF and professional SPDIF families. Otherwise, you probably just need to convert one physical layer type to another. In this case it would be converting TOSLINK to ST. If its all consumer type SPDIF being used by source and target devices then you might not even need a chip. It might be as simple is routing the electrical output of a TOSLINK receiver to a the electrical input of an ST fiber transmitter. That and provide them with a power supply.
That said, although its probably not hard to do, there is not likely enough demand for such a device to interest a commercial manufacturer. That would be my guess anyway.
And something like this: https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/toslink-fiber-optic-receiving-modules/68177
Get the datasheets for the devices and figure out how to connect them together. It might also help to see if there a part number printed on the ST receiver modules in the dac. A datasheet for it may provide some more clues.
It may help to know that SPDIF and TOSLINK are the same data transfer protocol, they are just different types of physical interconnections. An I2S to SPDIF converter chip doesn't have to know which you are using, they are both the same thing to that chip. The only difference I know of so far is that the professional version of SPDIF called AES, besides having a different physical layer, also can treat data somewhat differently. If it turns out that your dac wants professional AES signaling, then you might need a chip to convert between standard SPDIF and professional SPDIF families. Otherwise, you probably just need to convert one physical layer type to another. In this case it would be converting TOSLINK to ST. If its all consumer type SPDIF being used by source and target devices then you might not even need a chip. It might be as simple is routing the electrical output of a TOSLINK receiver to a the electrical input of an ST fiber transmitter. That and provide them with a power supply.
That said, although its probably not hard to do, there is not likely enough demand for such a device to interest a commercial manufacturer. That would be my guess anyway.
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Thank you for the links: I already have a few stock of ST and Toslink connectors...
But the signal conversion from Toslink to ST is beyond my knowledge
it is exactly what I am looking for, but as i don't know how to do, I try to find someone that has the expertise to achieve this...
Power supply will not be a problem: I have already achieved dozens of them...
But the signal conversion from Toslink to ST is beyond my knowledge
The product sheet for the Bel Canto that I could find has rear panel ST output along with BNC and 3-pin XLR AES outputs. if your source (e.g. Bel Canto Reflink, etc.) has 3-pin XLR AES output, then that could possibly be connected thru an RS-422 or similar differential line receiver chip (e.g. ST26C32ABDR) to drive an ST fiber transmitter module. finding electronic parts in stock is very difficult right now, so the design might depend on the following:
specific interfaces available from your USB to s/pdif converter. what is make / model of your USB converter?
what country / region are you located in (local sourcing if possible to reduce international shipping costs) ?
what are your soldering / prototyping skills? thru-hole or SMT also?
I think that an electrical interface to the source (instead of Toslink) would offer better performance in terms of lower bit error rate and lower jitter, especially at higher sample rates / higher bit depth
once the source interface is defined and a receiver chip is obtained, a resistor input network for the receiver chip can be designed.
specific interfaces available from your USB to s/pdif converter. what is make / model of your USB converter?
what country / region are you located in (local sourcing if possible to reduce international shipping costs) ?
what are your soldering / prototyping skills? thru-hole or SMT also?
I think that an electrical interface to the source (instead of Toslink) would offer better performance in terms of lower bit error rate and lower jitter, especially at higher sample rates / higher bit depth
once the source interface is defined and a receiver chip is obtained, a resistor input network for the receiver chip can be designed.
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It does: look at the attached photo, it has 1 USB input, and 3 outputs as you say: AES-EBU, BNC and ST.
Do you mean that you need to know the reference of the internal integrated circuits ? if yes, just confirm because it is not a problem for me to open the Reflink.
But as long as the Reflink works (I hope it will last for many years !), my problem does not relate to USB, but is "how to convert Toslink and BNC, to ST".
I am located in Europe (France) and I use to order the electronic parts from Mouser. But if necessary I can order them from the US or anywhere else... The import taxes should probably not be a problem as I suppose the the required ICs are not so expensive (?)
I am probably what could be told an expert in terms of soldering , for the "through hole" domain: I have already restored hundreds of devices.
I use to design dozens of PCBs (even pretty complex ones) and designing a new PCB would probably not be a problem.
Regarding the SMD soldering, it is more difficult for me: but if I cannot avoid it, I suppose I could achieve it.
If it is too "touchy", I know that can order the PCBs with the SMD already soldered (from JLCPCB) but I have not yet tried this approach.
you are surely right, but I am not able to design this circuit without help.
Let's say that the source is BNC or Toslink, and output is ST...
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what is the reason for wanting to do the conversion from BNC or XLR AES to ST optical? If you are intending to use the Wadia 9 DAC as-is (without modifications) then why not use a purpose-designed single-mode ST optical link from Bel Canto Reflink to Wadia 9's ST input? companies that sell electronics for the multi-media / television / broadcast industries (e.g. Markertek in the US) should have pre-made ST fiber cables.
aside: ST fiber uses 820nm IR (Infrared) wavelength, and toslink uses 650nm visible red LED, so there would be some compromise in creating an optical cable with toslink on one end and ST connector on the other end.
aside: ST fiber uses 820nm IR (Infrared) wavelength, and toslink uses 650nm visible red LED, so there would be some compromise in creating an optical cable with toslink on one end and ST connector on the other end.
from a local parts distributor (e.g. Mouser in France) search for an ST fiber transmitter module and a differential line receiver chip (anything from 1 to 4 channels) that is in stock. then post the part numbers and/or datasheets to this thread.
I can help with a schematic design, but you will have to work on the fabrication and debugging from the other side of the world. do you have an oscilloscope?
I can help with a schematic design, but you will have to work on the fabrication and debugging from the other side of the world. do you have an oscilloscope?
There are commercial TOSLINK to RCA convertors that are inexpensive and might be modded to make your project much easier They run on SPDIF format. RCA input should be easily modded to BNC. For optical out, modding TOSLINK to ST will be more of a challenge.
Can you take a photo of the Wadia ST receiver?
Does it match with this transmitter:
If it does look up the datasheet for compatibility with the TOSLINK.
This looks like a fun project. Enjoy.
Sorry for my late replies, but for an unknown reason I do not receive the notifications (so I am not informed when a reply is posted...).
So I am looking for a solution to connect BNC and/or Toslink to my Wadia (ST).
I already have somewhere in my stock a few ST transmitters/receivers: Emitter=AVAGO ST 1414TZ and Receiver=AVAGO 2416TZ , bought from Mouser.
But I have no knowledge about a "digital line receiver chip"...
True: I could buy a commercial converter and replace RCA by BNC 75 ohms. It is simple but I did not thought about it...
Nevertheless, as I also already have a Switch that converts 7x[Toslink and BNC] inputs to [1 Toslink and 1 BNC] output, so the problem remains the conversion to the ST format.
Yes it is this one.
There were 3 like this one originally, and one of them has been replaced by an AVAGO (see above for the reference), but the AVAGO does not improve the sound: the sound that I get out of the W9 is slightly better on the 2 remaining inputs with the original ST receivers.
Because my Wadia has been carefully and seriously upgraded (by my engineer) to a point that it is a pure champion from a musical viewpoint (comparisons made with other high end systems in France), so I would like to use it as much as possible.
I use the Reflink,but the Reflink has jsut a USB input, no Toslink or BNC input.
So I am looking for a solution to connect BNC and/or Toslink to my Wadia (ST).
True; Lifatec sells an optic fiber with Toslink at one end and ST at the other end, but explains that in rare cases in does not work.
I already have somewhere in my stock a few ST transmitters/receivers: Emitter=AVAGO ST 1414TZ and Receiver=AVAGO 2416TZ , bought from Mouser.
But I have no knowledge about a "digital line receiver chip"...
Yes, a Siglent SDS-1202X-E, but I am not an expert in using it...
True: I could buy a commercial converter and replace RCA by BNC 75 ohms. It is simple but I did not thought about it...
Nevertheless, as I also already have a Switch that converts 7x[Toslink and BNC] inputs to [1 Toslink and 1 BNC] output, so the problem remains the conversion to the ST format.
Yes it is this one.
There were 3 like this one originally, and one of them has been replaced by an AVAGO (see above for the reference), but the AVAGO does not improve the sound: the sound that I get out of the W9 is slightly better on the 2 remaining inputs with the original ST receivers.
AVAGO ST 1414TZ emitter looks plenty fast for s/pdif signals (use anti-static handling and soldering procedures). the avago datasheet includes a recommended driver circuit so add 74F3037 to the parts list as well.
front end to BNC side will need an RS-422 receiver chip (either 2 or 4 channels OK)
front end to BNC side will need an RS-422 receiver chip (either 2 or 4 channels OK)
So all you need to do is find the TOSLINK transmitter datasheet and the ST transmitter datasheet and do a mod.
The CTS ST transmitter will likely be the best match with your Wadia. There are available.
https://www.ing.iac.es/~eng/detectors/engineering/sdsu/data_sheets/odl50.pdf
What other DACs have you compared it to? It would be good if you can share the other DAC models you tried and explain what the Wadia 9 does better please. Thanks 🙂
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For a cheap test board there are TOSLINK splitters with 1 input and 3 outputs that sell for $7. Having the reduncancy of three outputs takes the pressure off. No excuses 🙂
I had a similar situation - I wanted to feed my (old) Genesis Digital Lens via ST... What I did was check the model of the ST receiver in the digital lens, then brought the matching transmitter... In my case the receiver was made by Avago, and the matching transmitter was a HFBR-1414... Then I looked through the application notes on the Avago site, and Application Note 1121 showed transmitter and receiver circuits. I actually got a bit of help here and sent the transmitter circuit to Lucian to see if he thought it would work with his WaveIO, he said yeah but he had to modify the WaveIO to give a higher voltage output (IIRC). I ordered all the parts, and the WaveIO, built the transmitter circuit following the Application Note and it all worked. I have USB in (from computer via WaveIO) and ST out (to stereo). Also FYI I've had different ST gear in the past that didn't mix and match which is why I'd recommend getting the matching transmitter for your receiver.
I found some old photos...
Some more info - the issue with getting the WaveIO to work was the Avago TX circuit requires a TTL signal. Lucian who makes the WaveIO omitted some resistors to give me a high enough signal for this. Obviously you're after BNC or AES input rather than USB, and I'm sure there are any number of prebuilt boards for this which will output spdif, that you could then run through something like the following before the Avago TX circuit: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/spdif-level.aspx
Some more info - the issue with getting the WaveIO to work was the Avago TX circuit requires a TTL signal. Lucian who makes the WaveIO omitted some resistors to give me a high enough signal for this. Obviously you're after BNC or AES input rather than USB, and I'm sure there are any number of prebuilt boards for this which will output spdif, that you could then run through something like the following before the Avago TX circuit: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/spdif-level.aspx
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Here is the application note: https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/AV02-0723EN
The circuit I used is Figure 3...
The circuit I used is Figure 3...
Attachments
@JamesNZ: thank you for all this very interesting information: it is promising to build up a solution....
As fas as I understand, your solution converts a USB input to ST output; my understanding is described by the following schematics: see the attached diagram.
Your suggestion seems to replace the "WaveIo board" by another prebuilt board that would convert the [BNC or AES/EBU] signals to SPDIF signal, in order to feed the "Twisted Pear Audio" board. The rest of the diagram would remain unchanged.
One of my Wadia inputs has been modified with an AVAGO receiver, and I am almost sure that it is an Avago 2416-TZ, probably matching with the 1414TZ that I have in my stock (the 2 other inputs are unchanged, so they should use a CTS ODL Series II).
If it is simpler to design a solution using the CTS ODL Series II, then I will by a CTS emitter.
Do I understand correctly ?
If yes, we still have to find a prebuilt board that would convert BNC to SPDIF: suggestions are welcome !
If we find such a board, then I could probably begin to build a solution, under your monitoring of course...🙂
As fas as I understand, your solution converts a USB input to ST output; my understanding is described by the following schematics: see the attached diagram.
Your suggestion seems to replace the "WaveIo board" by another prebuilt board that would convert the [BNC or AES/EBU] signals to SPDIF signal, in order to feed the "Twisted Pear Audio" board. The rest of the diagram would remain unchanged.
One of my Wadia inputs has been modified with an AVAGO receiver, and I am almost sure that it is an Avago 2416-TZ, probably matching with the 1414TZ that I have in my stock (the 2 other inputs are unchanged, so they should use a CTS ODL Series II).
If it is simpler to design a solution using the CTS ODL Series II, then I will by a CTS emitter.
Do I understand correctly ?
If yes, we still have to find a prebuilt board that would convert BNC to SPDIF: suggestions are welcome !
If we find such a board, then I could probably begin to build a solution, under your monitoring of course...🙂
I don't forget: I am writing a reply to this point
