G'day,
I want to re-wire the internals of my amp using Cat 6.
Should I use the tightly twisting pairs for line level and the looser twisted pairs for the power output? Other suggestions?
Cheers,
Alex
I want to re-wire the internals of my amp using Cat 6.
Should I use the tightly twisting pairs for line level and the looser twisted pairs for the power output? Other suggestions?
Cheers,
Alex
OK, I plan to strip the outer sheath, separate the four twisted pairs and run those in place of hook up wire. One of tightly twisted pairs would be for line level and one of the more relaxed twisted pairs I would use for the output.
Does it make a difference how tightly twisted the wires are? Or does it make no difference?
Cheers,
Alex
Does it make a difference how tightly twisted the wires are? Or does it make no difference?
Cheers,
Alex
Yes, I built the amp myself from a kit so the twisted pairs of hook up wire that I used will be replaced by the Cat 6.
Seems like no one is telling me it's a bad idea, so I'll take it as a green light.
Cheers,
Alex
Seems like no one is telling me it's a bad idea, so I'll take it as a green light.
Cheers,
Alex
how well this is going to work depends on the speed of your cd player ..... or turn table .... if its 10mbps you use cat 5 anything higher will have to be cat 6
:::
does any of the above sound any reasonable to you ???? i presume not ...so here is the story
cat 5-6 cables might work in a healthy envirolment inside one amp helathy = properly grounded and sealed
but all these twisted cables for line level signal might present capacitance or inductance that is not good for line levels or audio signal ...
then again elctrically wise this will might work but eventhough signal might be twisted with ground but this will not prevent cross talk between two signals if the cable is not sealed or coaxial ...
it might work but use simply nice coaxials keep your ground rooting under the rules and will be just fine
cat 5-6 has nothing better to offer you next to a standard coax cable probaly will make things worst
happy regards sakis
:::does any of the above sound any reasonable to you ???? i presume not ...so here is the story
cat 5-6 cables might work in a healthy envirolment inside one amp helathy = properly grounded and sealed
but all these twisted cables for line level signal might present capacitance or inductance that is not good for line levels or audio signal ...
then again elctrically wise this will might work but eventhough signal might be twisted with ground but this will not prevent cross talk between two signals if the cable is not sealed or coaxial ...
it might work but use simply nice coaxials keep your ground rooting under the rules and will be just fine
cat 5-6 has nothing better to offer you next to a standard coax cable probaly will make things worst
happy regards sakis
TBH i would have to say this is a bad idea. Small signal connections should be made with good screened cable. Speaker connections should be made with OFC cable of an appropriate gauge.
CAT6 (or CAT5 for that matter) is neither of those... it is designed to be used with balanced signals where overall capacitance must be minimised for long runs.
CAT6 (or CAT5 for that matter) is neither of those... it is designed to be used with balanced signals where overall capacitance must be minimised for long runs.
cat 5 is rated to 100mbps
cat 6 is overkill
check out EIA/TIA specs
it'll work fine to replace other twisted pairs.
not as good as coax. but fine where you would use twisted pair.
all 4 pair in the cable will work
they're twisted different to prevent crosstalk in the cable
Some of us refuse to use coax because we want solid-core wires in the signal path. 😱
Hence I would say teflon-coated Cat5/6 twisted pairs will be just fine for signal wiring. But of course, keep the input tp separate from the output tp. 🙂
However, what would be better IMO (if you like to go to extremes 😀 ) is a couple of stands of solid-core, teflon-coated 26g for 'signal' twisted around a solid-core, teflon-coated 22g wire for 'ground'.
Regards,
Andy
your set up will work only in very healthy areas were absolutelly no EMI of any form is present .... Unless ftp sealed cable is used with the ground connected properly
also only if things are kept very simple inside any device cause crosstalk will totally terible if more than one line is present
not to mention that if termination is very low this will behave very microphonic ....
if this type of topology had any chances to work be sure that some manufacturer will used in the past ...but so far never see that
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Thankyou all for your input.
My existing internal wiring is stranded hookup wire in twisted pairs.
The amp is a Silicon Chip 20W Class A - PCB and components are available as a kit from www.altronics.com.au
Layout of the wiring is a very specific part of the amp design which gives a claimed distortion level of around 0.0006%.
So, my thinking is that solid core Cat 6 should be better than stranded hookup wire.
My existing internal wiring is stranded hookup wire in twisted pairs.
The amp is a Silicon Chip 20W Class A - PCB and components are available as a kit from www.altronics.com.au
Layout of the wiring is a very specific part of the amp design which gives a claimed distortion level of around 0.0006%.
So, my thinking is that solid core Cat 6 should be better than stranded hookup wire.
for last time ....
audio cables is not only material ...it is also the way its made .... so diferent cables present capacitance, inductunce ,and crosstalk that make diference in the sound
a specific cable with capacitance A versus some other capacitance B will actually make a "filter" in the input of your amplifier
now this is by far more importand than contactivity ......
example :
in the past and also now days companies that manufacture tv cables use the best material available ...that is ofc tech cooper or silver coated coper ....
china manufacturers found out that they may keep the best of material like cooper for the core and use simple galvanized iron for the shield ...not only it works but also droped the prize of the cable 60% down meanwhile the rest charcteristics of the cable are more or less the same .....
you are looking in the wrong direction my friend
audio cables is not only material ...it is also the way its made .... so diferent cables present capacitance, inductunce ,and crosstalk that make diference in the sound
a specific cable with capacitance A versus some other capacitance B will actually make a "filter" in the input of your amplifier
now this is by far more importand than contactivity ......
example :
in the past and also now days companies that manufacture tv cables use the best material available ...that is ofc tech cooper or silver coated coper ....
china manufacturers found out that they may keep the best of material like cooper for the core and use simple galvanized iron for the shield ...not only it works but also droped the prize of the cable 60% down meanwhile the rest charcteristics of the cable are more or less the same .....
you are looking in the wrong direction my friend
I find that twisted pair do just fine as interconnects in unbalanced inputs.
I also follow the advice usually found in this Forum to use twisted pair for connections inside the amplifier work well.
I find coax offers no advantage and is more difficult to shape to a particular route and more prone to breaking the fine strands in the core.
Hand wound twisted pairs are probably just as good as machine wound twisted pairs at transferring audio signals. They do not need to see a characteristic impedance upto to the many MHz.
I use insulated 0.6mm diam hookup wire as pairs and have a left over half reel of CAT5 that I have not used for interconnects.
I also follow the advice usually found in this Forum to use twisted pair for connections inside the amplifier work well.
I find coax offers no advantage and is more difficult to shape to a particular route and more prone to breaking the fine strands in the core.
Hand wound twisted pairs are probably just as good as machine wound twisted pairs at transferring audio signals. They do not need to see a characteristic impedance upto to the many MHz.
I use insulated 0.6mm diam hookup wire as pairs and have a left over half reel of CAT5 that I have not used for interconnects.
Let's get these thing into context:
We're talking about 2 different connection systems here:
Twisted pair and Screened cable.
Twisted pair:
Designed for balanced systems, where a differential signal is used. The twisting reduces unwanted pickup and emission of electrostatic & electromagnetic fields.
Examples of balanced systems: AC to & from a power transformer. Signal to & from a signal transformer, where neither side is grounded.
Screened cable:
Designed for unbalanced systems. Signal passes down centre conductor and returns via shield. The shield reduces only electrostatic pickup & emission.
Examples of unbalanced systems: Anything connected to a phono/RCA socket. Power supply connections, where one side is grounded. Most internal wiring of audio equipment, unless a fully balanced design.
Both of the above systems will cause some inductance in series and capacitance in parallel with the signal.
At higher frequencies we utilise this L & C to produce a transmission line.
For this to work, 3 conditions must be right: The source impedance, the cable characteristic impedance and the load impedance must all match. When this is right the L & C elements disappear. This is how coaxial cable works at RF and CAT5 & 6 can pass high data rates with comparatively little loss. In the case of CAT6 cables the twisting is done in a very clever way.
It is possible to use transmission line connection for analogue audio, but since the characteristic impedance of most cables is in the 50 ohm to 300 ohm range, you would need some serious cable driving circuitry. Digital audio normally uses 75 ohm or 300 ohm connection by this system.
Twisted pair interconnects are sometimes screened as well, as in profession/broadcast interconnects. These are normally not impedance matched for analogue, but are for digital audio.
So the question:
Is twisted pair relevant to unbalanced connection?
Against:
It will only partially reject interference, and will probably be worse than a screened connection. Static interference may be worse than using a screened interconnect.
For: It may partially reject magnetic fields. It's capacitance may be lower than a screened interconnect.
Is the wire from CAT6 cable any good for internal wiring? I think it's as good but no better than many others, twisted or not.
I've ignored factors such as conductance, skin effect and dielectric. They form another argument...
We're talking about 2 different connection systems here:
Twisted pair and Screened cable.
Twisted pair:
Designed for balanced systems, where a differential signal is used. The twisting reduces unwanted pickup and emission of electrostatic & electromagnetic fields.
Examples of balanced systems: AC to & from a power transformer. Signal to & from a signal transformer, where neither side is grounded.
Screened cable:
Designed for unbalanced systems. Signal passes down centre conductor and returns via shield. The shield reduces only electrostatic pickup & emission.
Examples of unbalanced systems: Anything connected to a phono/RCA socket. Power supply connections, where one side is grounded. Most internal wiring of audio equipment, unless a fully balanced design.
Both of the above systems will cause some inductance in series and capacitance in parallel with the signal.
At higher frequencies we utilise this L & C to produce a transmission line.
For this to work, 3 conditions must be right: The source impedance, the cable characteristic impedance and the load impedance must all match. When this is right the L & C elements disappear. This is how coaxial cable works at RF and CAT5 & 6 can pass high data rates with comparatively little loss. In the case of CAT6 cables the twisting is done in a very clever way.
It is possible to use transmission line connection for analogue audio, but since the characteristic impedance of most cables is in the 50 ohm to 300 ohm range, you would need some serious cable driving circuitry. Digital audio normally uses 75 ohm or 300 ohm connection by this system.
Twisted pair interconnects are sometimes screened as well, as in profession/broadcast interconnects. These are normally not impedance matched for analogue, but are for digital audio.
So the question:
Is twisted pair relevant to unbalanced connection?
Against:
It will only partially reject interference, and will probably be worse than a screened connection. Static interference may be worse than using a screened interconnect.
For: It may partially reject magnetic fields. It's capacitance may be lower than a screened interconnect.
Is the wire from CAT6 cable any good for internal wiring? I think it's as good but no better than many others, twisted or not.
I've ignored factors such as conductance, skin effect and dielectric. They form another argument...
You can find stranded core, shielded twisted-pair cables (STP Patch cables) for both CAT-5e and CAT-6 categories. I'd prefer stranded core for flexibility for inner wiring. Solid core cables are more difficult to route and too much bending will crack the core inside the cable. The shielding is aluminum foil on these calbes, but it's better than nothing, in my opinion. Some cables have foil shielding on each pairs with braided shield for the whole (called SSTP, I think, but not 100% sure).
Good luck!
Regards,
Satoru
Good luck!
Regards,
Satoru
Can anyone point to a partnumber or type , maybe from digikey.com for good internal wiring cable. Thanks.
What you can do to have a screened cable is making you own cable. Just disasemble the CAT6 Cable you have. Do not destroy the meshwork, you will need that later. The CAT6 Cable has 4 extra shilded pairs inside. Just pick one. Put the meshwork over that single pair. Use heat shrink tube. Connect the screen to one wire of only one(!) side. There you go.
I have found to have at work a reel of Belden coaxial cable (Model 83624).
http://us.100y.com.tw/pdf_file/Belden 83264.pdf
Seems to be quite good for signal.
Specs report:
-30AWG Silver Plated Copper Covered Steel (SPCCS) conductor, Teflon insulator, Silver Plated Copper (SPC) braid.
-19.5pF/ft and 0.1uH/ft
I'm planning using it to route internal signal wiring as well as for RCA interconects. What makes me scratch my head is the fact that it has steel in it. Could be any real problem?
http://us.100y.com.tw/pdf_file/Belden 83264.pdf
Seems to be quite good for signal.
Specs report:
-30AWG Silver Plated Copper Covered Steel (SPCCS) conductor, Teflon insulator, Silver Plated Copper (SPC) braid.
-19.5pF/ft and 0.1uH/ft
I'm planning using it to route internal signal wiring as well as for RCA interconects. What makes me scratch my head is the fact that it has steel in it. Could be any real problem?
Where do you get the idea that this cable is "quite good for signal"??
You do not want steel in audio cables ... and I can't see the point of spending your time making something that will sound bad? So what if the component is cheap/free.
Regards,
Andy
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