JSS said:
As soon as you select Series or Parallel configuration, Hornresp takes care of all the behind scenes calculations. The only thing you need to manipulate is Le if you choose to use an inductor to smooth response. If you are using two woofers in series, then you need to split the inductance value in half and add it to the woofer’s Le parameter window in Hornresp. So, if you want to use a 3mH inductor, just add 1.5mH.
Rgs, JLH
aceinc said:
Like Steve just posted look here for some advice on folding---> http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Folding_a_Tapped_Horn.pdf
I have always designed my folds with pen and paper and a scaled drafting ruler. I really don't care for using CAD programs. My double Tang Band TH was the first time I used Google SketchUp. After using it, I'm back to using paper again.
Rgs, JLH
For aceinc / paul:
<I was looking at the folded Eminence Lab 12 design by Don Snyder, and saw that tupaki built one with a different driver, and seemed pleased with the result.>
The HR sim was by Mavo, but I simplified it and shortened L34.
< When I went looking for the Lab 12 I found the Lab 12 Generation 2. Is that the driver that was used for the design? Is it close enough to work?>
The Lab12 gen 2 is the only version ever sold. The gen 1 was a prototype.
<Regarding this design, I noticed in one post that Don said that he modified it slightly in order to eliminate the need for an access panel. Did he post the unmodified version? ... Is this also the design that Chris8sirhC built out of wafer board?>
Yes, this is the design that Chris built. I modified the sim, then designed the fold to match the modified sim. The design assumed t-nuts and socket head cap screws, which would have made it possible to load the driver from the mouth (possible, not easy).
Chris decided to mount the driver with large wood screws, which made an access panel necessary.
For JLH:
You're right, you don't need CAD, you can be off by quite a bit without affecting the sound. Since I don't know what the limits are, I prefer to err on the side of caution. Volvotreter's simple fold technique is just a little bit sloppy for my taste, but you won't hear the difference.
<I was looking at the folded Eminence Lab 12 design by Don Snyder, and saw that tupaki built one with a different driver, and seemed pleased with the result.>
The HR sim was by Mavo, but I simplified it and shortened L34.
< When I went looking for the Lab 12 I found the Lab 12 Generation 2. Is that the driver that was used for the design? Is it close enough to work?>
The Lab12 gen 2 is the only version ever sold. The gen 1 was a prototype.
<Regarding this design, I noticed in one post that Don said that he modified it slightly in order to eliminate the need for an access panel. Did he post the unmodified version? ... Is this also the design that Chris8sirhC built out of wafer board?>
Yes, this is the design that Chris built. I modified the sim, then designed the fold to match the modified sim. The design assumed t-nuts and socket head cap screws, which would have made it possible to load the driver from the mouth (possible, not easy).
Chris decided to mount the driver with large wood screws, which made an access panel necessary.
For JLH:
You're right, you don't need CAD, you can be off by quite a bit without affecting the sound. Since I don't know what the limits are, I prefer to err on the side of caution. Volvotreter's simple fold technique is just a little bit sloppy for my taste, but you won't hear the difference.
Not having built/measured any THs about all I can say is that compared to mine and others designs there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it AFAIK.
If you double click the 'Eg' field it will pop up a window that allows you to spec 'x' watts @ 'y' ohms, so inputting 1 W and 4 ohms yields 2 V.
FWIW, I did some sims of this driver awhile back, all of which are bigger than yours, so are more efficient, but they will probably be easier to build than your end loaded one.
This one has 5 mH, 0.4 ohms:
GM
If you double click the 'Eg' field it will pop up a window that allows you to spec 'x' watts @ 'y' ohms, so inputting 1 W and 4 ohms yields 2 V.
FWIW, I did some sims of this driver awhile back, all of which are bigger than yours, so are more efficient, but they will probably be easier to build than your end loaded one.
This one has 5 mH, 0.4 ohms:
GM
Attachments
I know cross posting from other forums is not the best of web manners, but this post really struck me. It reminded me of life before Tapped Horns. I used to have a large subwoofer horn too. Not this big, but not far from it either. Looking at the last picture my initial reaction was “Holy cr@p, that thing is huge!” The initial shock was followed by some uncontrollable snickering and a general feeling of relief that we don’t have to live with refrigerators in our listening rooms anymore. How’s that for putting things in perspective?
Link to post --> http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/13/137114.html
Link to post --> http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/13/137114.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Volvotreter said:Good evening.
In the meantime I listened a lot to the first tapped horn I built for the 15" Eminence I had laying around. What I must say is that I like the bass of the unit a lot. Is sounds very accurate and precise. The sound is what I would decribe as effortless and easy. The best bass I had in the system. That's for shure.
After listening some evenings with my friends, one of them wanted to know if it would be possible to build something like that but smaller (better WAF, what the one for the 15" doesn't have). I serarched a lot for possible drivers, and to make a long storry short, I ended up with a 6.5" Tangband. Since they are so cheap and to have some more headroom and flexibility in regards to placement I directly built two units:
Note: Access panel to cover the speaker is not installed on this picture (it will be mounted on the aluminum rails).
For testing I placed them simply in between my mains, right next to them. Especially compare them (75l net) to the 15" TH (430l net) in the right hand corner:
I was very curious on what they are capable of. And after a weekend of listening I have to say that the result is way beyond my expectations. Sure, the big one goes deeper and louder, but they just sound great. Very well controlled and smooth, down to the lowest re3gisters. I found myself several times not believing that only the two small TH's were running (but the big one and the Klipsch were disconnected). They are able to produce very remarkable volumes, much more than usually required for listening music as well as HT. They are capable to keep up with my mains in every way.
Tomorrow I'll bring the TH's to my friends home. Since I fell in love with them, I already ordered another 4 of the speakers.
To come to an end: An incredible bang for the buck (at least in my eyes and for my purposes). Very easy to build (I glued them togeter in my living room) and a lot of fun. For an amp I used the unused rear center amplifier from my HT amp. The xover is a 30€ Reckhorn unit. Total investment for the speakers, the MDF (16mm) and the xover
approx 150 Euro.
I'll make the plans available soon.
I couldn't find the plans, are they in this thread somewhere?
EDIT: Ah, I think there are on this page: http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
RE: 38Hz TB Tapped Horns "Now I just have to wait for the 4,7mH coils required and for some spare time to evaluate what they will sound like. "
Have some listening impressions yet? How do they compare to the other TB folded horns ("30 Hz" ones).
When prototyping boxes in rapid mode...
About how much level/freq difference might be possible between a tightly assembled test box (no caulk) and a properley glued and caulked one. Assuming exact same box.
I'm getting really close an wondering if I'll get a db or two more
once I build the first sealed one. I need the proto as a reference so it has to be disassembled.
About how much level/freq difference might be possible between a tightly assembled test box (no caulk) and a properley glued and caulked one. Assuming exact same box.
I'm getting really close an wondering if I'll get a db or two more
once I build the first sealed one. I need the proto as a reference so it has to be disassembled.
IIRC, jbell found more than a dB by bracing his glued up boxes, so I'm of the opinion that finding a dB or two by gluing/sealing is not out of the question.
In my last TH build, I had significant air leaks on the high pressure side (I totally overthought the design of my access panel...). Once I fixed that, the frequency response seems much smoother and the cone excursion problems went away. I have not measured the SPL response on this TH yet, but hope to in the next few weeks (not on nearly as fast a track as you).
It does not take a large leak to mess things up.
In my last TH build, I had significant air leaks on the high pressure side (I totally overthought the design of my access panel...). Once I fixed that, the frequency response seems much smoother and the cone excursion problems went away. I have not measured the SPL response on this TH yet, but hope to in the next few weeks (not on nearly as fast a track as you).
It does not take a large leak to mess things up.
The plans for all my designs are in the download section:
http://www.volvotreter.de/dl-section.htm
In the meantime I listened a lot to the 38Hz TH and I like it no matter what. It integrates very well with my conical midbass horns. Much better than the klipschorn does. At the low end thay are supported by the large eminence 15" TH. Even without the large TH the system sounds very nice to me. For a lot of music 40Hz seems to be sufficient on the low end. But when it comes to electro etc. with massive content below 40Hz, the large TH shows it's strength. This is the moment where my mouth sometimes remains open. Deep and effortless, even at insane levels. Almost too sexy to be true.
I'm so happy that the TH principle has been re-discovered by Tom Danley and that we have David McBeans hornresp to make the design so easy.
Erik
http://www.volvotreter.de/dl-section.htm
In the meantime I listened a lot to the 38Hz TH and I like it no matter what. It integrates very well with my conical midbass horns. Much better than the klipschorn does. At the low end thay are supported by the large eminence 15" TH. Even without the large TH the system sounds very nice to me. For a lot of music 40Hz seems to be sufficient on the low end. But when it comes to electro etc. with massive content below 40Hz, the large TH shows it's strength. This is the moment where my mouth sometimes remains open. Deep and effortless, even at insane levels. Almost too sexy to be true.
I'm so happy that the TH principle has been re-discovered by Tom Danley and that we have David McBeans hornresp to make the design so easy.
Erik
Compared to the 30Hz version: Low end extension wise the the 30Hz version wins. No surprise here. In regards to integration the 38Hz is my favorite (crossing at 90Hz to my conical midbass). If you can xover at 60Hz build the 30Hz version. I was surpriesed what an 6.5" is capable of. Use 19mm wall thickness at least and add stiff bracing. Unbelivable price performance ratio in my eyes.
Erik
Erik
Has anyone taken http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm 's autocad designs and converted them to yank friendly measurements? (inches & feet) I can do it with a pencil & paper but I suspect it will take a while, and I'll probably screw it up a couple of times till I get it right. Or to put it another way, I'm just plain lazy.
Specifically I'm interested in the 30hz variety.
Also is the U-shaped piece that the driver is attached to, all 90 degrees placed at at an "n" (where n ~ 85) degree angle to the base? and the "duct middle" is at 90 degrees to the base as well, right?
Paul
Specifically I'm interested in the 30hz variety.
Also is the U-shaped piece that the driver is attached to, all 90 degrees placed at at an "n" (where n ~ 85) degree angle to the base? and the "duct middle" is at 90 degrees to the base as well, right?
Paul
Finishing questions.....
I have "artistically" (by the seat of my pants lol) built a TH in the
40x28x21 form factor. The goal was to match my former double 18's. With a million little air leaks it's putting out82db at 30, from 90db @40hz to 101 db at 55hz, then 101db +- 2db to 120 with a slight rise to 105db at 150-160hz. Close enough for a leaky test box. measured a 2.83v 1m. These are for PA use. The driver is the Eminence 3015lf. When I make some cash with these I'll replace them with 4015's or 15tbx100's.
Where would things like poly fill and ramps help smooth things out? Perhaps some treatment in all the corners of the turns?
Horn path finishing suggestions please.
I have to disassemble the prototype to figure out what I did before I can post it. (and build 6 more) I also want to see if anyone can tweak it. I built it more like I was building a musical instrument, using horn resp as a basic guide and pure feel.
Lots of wood in this thing. Fairly complex. Sounds pretty darn good so far. Dr Danley's little monsters are makin some noise!
I have "artistically" (by the seat of my pants lol) built a TH in the
40x28x21 form factor. The goal was to match my former double 18's. With a million little air leaks it's putting out82db at 30, from 90db @40hz to 101 db at 55hz, then 101db +- 2db to 120 with a slight rise to 105db at 150-160hz. Close enough for a leaky test box. measured a 2.83v 1m. These are for PA use. The driver is the Eminence 3015lf. When I make some cash with these I'll replace them with 4015's or 15tbx100's.
Where would things like poly fill and ramps help smooth things out? Perhaps some treatment in all the corners of the turns?
Horn path finishing suggestions please.
I have to disassemble the prototype to figure out what I did before I can post it. (and build 6 more) I also want to see if anyone can tweak it. I built it more like I was building a musical instrument, using horn resp as a basic guide and pure feel.
Lots of wood in this thing. Fairly complex. Sounds pretty darn good so far. Dr Danley's little monsters are makin some noise!
screamersusa, before you commit to building 4 cabs, have a look at this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130967&perpage=25&pagenumber=1.
A simple one fold TH simulated by djk may be used as is or perhaps a bit fine tuned to optimise the proposed TH for the 3015LF.
I have a pair of 3015LFs and another pair of LAB 12 drivers. I may eventually make Wayne Parham's 12Pi subs. But for smaller indoor/outdoor events I want to use the 3015LFs. I built two single 15 cabs with 4 triangular corner vents for the 3015s and found them very good. However, a practical and optimised TH is what I have been looking for and perhaps, djk's sim is in that direction.
My suggestion is that you build one more TH based on djk's suggestion and compare it with what you have already built.
I would like to know the progress you make. Thanks.
A simple one fold TH simulated by djk may be used as is or perhaps a bit fine tuned to optimise the proposed TH for the 3015LF.
I have a pair of 3015LFs and another pair of LAB 12 drivers. I may eventually make Wayne Parham's 12Pi subs. But for smaller indoor/outdoor events I want to use the 3015LFs. I built two single 15 cabs with 4 triangular corner vents for the 3015s and found them very good. However, a practical and optimised TH is what I have been looking for and perhaps, djk's sim is in that direction.
My suggestion is that you build one more TH based on djk's suggestion and compare it with what you have already built.
I would like to know the progress you make. Thanks.
aceinc said:
Just go buy a tape measure that has both English and Metric units and start building. Since most of the programs for calculating speaker designs are in Metric, I've used the Metric system for over 15 years now and love it. I would never think of trying to use English units to design something now. Trying to chase down 1/16" here or 5/32" there is absurd. The base 10 nature of the Metric system makes so much more sense. The hardest thing is to be able to visualize how long something is in Metric units. If I asked you to hold out your hands and show me how long a foot is, you would have no problem. However, if I asked you to show me how long 30cm is, you would probably have a hard time. Start using the metric system now, and over time it will become second nature. Us Americans really need to join the rest of the world and quit making things difficult. Just my $0.02 worth.