DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever

[audioengr]

How many times have such sane words been uttered since the 1940-s?

And yet, measurements in high end audio, even today, do not correlate to sound quality. At all.

Until there is an underlying theory explaining how a 5cm piece of wire, or a 1mm² point of contact influence perceived sound we will continue getting null results.

There are theories of course exist. The measurements are lacking though. The two metrics that are most problematic and have almost no correlation between measured and perceived are:

1) dynamic behavior
2) jitter

I hope to improve on #2.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[audioengr]

A good SET will have very good low level resolution and as long as not pushed will be a good vehicle to detect small differences. It does need to be mated to appropriate speakers thou, hence my — as yet unanwsered — questions about the Vapour Audio impedance curve.

dave

They don't publish these curves and I have not measured it, now stop insulting me.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Markw4]

There are theories of course exist. The measurements are lacking though. The two metrics that are most problematic and have almost no correlation between measured and perceived are:

1) dynamic behavior
2) jitter

I hope to improve on #2.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

There is an interesting jitter page here: jitter_1

 

[Doppler9000]

I think he was saying something similar. This is an overly pedantic, opinionated thread, and most here have agendas, so wading through it all for anything meaningful has become a waste of time

Threads can be neither pedantic nor opinionated.

Do you have an agenda?

 

[scottjoplin]

Hi, where have you been? I've missed your pedantry

 

[audioengr]

There is an interesting jitter page here: jitter_1

I hope these are good tracks. The best are tracks that have non-music, like rain, thunder, running water, ocean waves, paddling canoe etc..

Steve N.

 

[Doppler9000]

Hi, where have you been? I've missed your pedantry

I was missing your "logic" and your deep insights into how markets actually function.

I was hoping JonBocani was going to tell us of more of his super-surprising conclusions, but he is probably off running more ABX tests for his investors.

 

[scottjoplin]

I'm learning all the time here how markets function, no big surprises so far, I have no deep insights into things that appear so shallow, perhaps I'm missing something due to flawed logic, it's entirely possible. Jon has started and given up on many threads, I think it's part of his impulsive nature and short attention span

 

[Doppler9000]

perhaps I'm missing something due to flawed logic, it's entirely possible.

Ya think?

 

[scottjoplin]

I don't know for sure, there are a lot of people here with something to sell that speak in extreme and almost rude language

 

[TNT]

This is not logical. If the volume control is not transparent, it will create a difference in the file. If the assumption is that two files are identical for the human ear to start with, volume controlling them with a non-transparent volume control might make them different. If anything, this will increase the likelihood that two files which in fact are identical get perceived as different.

They can become equal just due to the volume control?

//

 

[scottjoplin]

My DAC volume control changes the D/A reference voltage. It does not change gain, resistance in the analog path or impedance. It does not decimate the digital words. Very transparent.

Tell me more, what do you mean by reference voltage?

 

[indra1]

Tell me more, what do you mean by reference voltage?

I can see Scott is truly wise by leaving early.

 

[scottjoplin]

Ha, we've been there before, it's all repetition. Have you any idea what he means? Only thing I've come across so far is this, which appears to be marketing BS, what a surprise DAC Volume Control Option | High End Power Cables | Hifi Cables by LessLoss

 

[mmerrill99]

Ha, we've been there before, it's all repetition. Have you any idea what he means? Only thing I've come across so far is this, which appears to be marketing BS, what a surprise DAC Volume Control Option | High End Power Cables | Hifi Cables by LessLoss

Do you truly want to learn or are you just yanking chains & trolling like you have done all through this thread?

Look up DAC reference voltage - all DACs have an internal Vref & some DACs make it available externally.

 

[analog_sa]

Tell me more, what do you mean by reference voltage?

Mark Levinson had a preamp based on the same concept once. It uses a dac chip for a volume control: analogue signal is applied instead of a reference voltage and the digital inputs determine the attenuation. It needed and i/v converter.

 

[scottjoplin]

That's what I thought, but when I googled it I got the thing I linked to above, it's nothing like that then? So the output would be at a lower level, wouldn't it be better though to keep it at as high a level as possible and attenuate just before the power amp?

 

[scottjoplin]

Do you truly want to learn or are you just yanking chains & trolling like you have done all through this thread?

That is a blatant lie, but then you often change the meaning of what people say.

 

[oivavoi]

There are theories of course exist. The measurements are lacking though. The two metrics that are most problematic and have almost no correlation between measured and perceived are:

1) dynamic behavior
2) jitter

I hope to improve on #2.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I actually agree very much with point 1. I know of no independent psychoacoustic or technical research into the perception of dynamics, and the technical correlations it has in a sound system. I think this is a big black box in consumer audio. Personally, I want my system to reproduce transients of at least 115 db - linearly - without starting to sweat. And I want it to happen without any overhang. More transient power would be even better, but then horns start becoming a necessity.

As for jitter, I might change my mind about it when we start getting better data

 

[mmerrill99]

Do you truly want to learn ......

That is a blatant lie,......

Haha, no, this is the way to change the meaning of what people say