Thanks for the link. If I really needed some more 8" drivers, I would be all over these Pioneers.
On a side note, does anyone know if there is a true SQ differnce between having the tweeter mounted ABOVE the mid or having the tweeter mounted BESIDE the mid. Is there much of a difference in sound?
Basically, sitting a small 2-way box on its side.
On a side note, does anyone know if there is a true SQ differnce between having the tweeter mounted ABOVE the mid or having the tweeter mounted BESIDE the mid. Is there much of a difference in sound?
Basically, sitting a small 2-way box on its side.
Prerunner->
<VOCIFERATION>
I do that with my 8x4.5x0.75 3-ways. They're on a top shelf on their sides, tweeters distal. They have relatively low crossover points and the midrange and tweeter touch each other in the baffle. The soundstage is still striking, but slightly more position-dependent. That could be since laying on their sides they point upwards by 10 degrees due to the cab shape, and I can't do any better than about 30 degrees off-axis since they can't point inwards at all. If I wanted to make a couple of my sons share a bedroom, I could probably do better, but I'll wait.
</VOCIFERATION>
The lower the XO point, and the closer the drivers are to each other physically, the less it matters, because node count is reduced and node separation distance is increased. The node field is in vertical arcs when they are horizontally aligned (hear them when moving right-left-right), and horizontal arcs when vertically aligned (hear them when standing up or sitting down). This varies a bit on the basis of how much baffle area / distance the waves can "walk" across, and what sort of abrupt corners and edges they find from which to diffract (including shelves, chairs, etc.) (These are influences upon the effective/apparent sizes of radiating elements to degrees which I have not yet studied in much depth).
Conclusion: It matters just as much as it is noticeable or bothersome to you the audiophile, under your living circumstances.
<VOCIFERATION>
I do that with my 8x4.5x0.75 3-ways. They're on a top shelf on their sides, tweeters distal. They have relatively low crossover points and the midrange and tweeter touch each other in the baffle. The soundstage is still striking, but slightly more position-dependent. That could be since laying on their sides they point upwards by 10 degrees due to the cab shape, and I can't do any better than about 30 degrees off-axis since they can't point inwards at all. If I wanted to make a couple of my sons share a bedroom, I could probably do better, but I'll wait.
</VOCIFERATION>
The lower the XO point, and the closer the drivers are to each other physically, the less it matters, because node count is reduced and node separation distance is increased. The node field is in vertical arcs when they are horizontally aligned (hear them when moving right-left-right), and horizontal arcs when vertically aligned (hear them when standing up or sitting down). This varies a bit on the basis of how much baffle area / distance the waves can "walk" across, and what sort of abrupt corners and edges they find from which to diffract (including shelves, chairs, etc.) (These are influences upon the effective/apparent sizes of radiating elements to degrees which I have not yet studied in much depth).
Conclusion: It matters just as much as it is noticeable or bothersome to you the audiophile, under your living circumstances.
Excellent. That's the design I'm leaning towards. It will make one definitely a right or left speaker, but that's fine. There will be less than an inch between the tweeter and mid. (Tweeter will be on the outside. Farthest left or right depending on the speaker.) Both drivers will almost be equidistant from the woofer. This should bring everything closer to a single point source, so to speak.
The box will be shorter than orginally planned, but I can always make a thicker base to stack it on if I need to. Woofer box will be 15x33x15 with a 1" recession at the top. Then a 13x10x13 box will fit inside of that. Probably on top of a pad to absorb vibration. Total height should be 42".
The box will be shorter than orginally planned, but I can always make a thicker base to stack it on if I need to. Woofer box will be 15x33x15 with a 1" recession at the top. Then a 13x10x13 box will fit inside of that. Probably on top of a pad to absorb vibration. Total height should be 42".
prerunnerv6 said:
That's cool. I always put a "chirality" into speaker pairs, where the left mirrors the right. Tweeter distance from the woofer matters the least of all, since they don't share any bandwidth...
Don't use too much padding, or Newton's third law of motion will getcha (...equal and opposite reaction...). The speaker moving forward is equal to the cabinet moving backward as far as the voice motor is concerned. It doesn't care what moves as long as it includes the magnet gap vs. the coil. Having the speaker cone be the only thing that is allowed to move relative to the universe is most desirable. That's why some folx put spikes on the bottom of their cabinets, since the floor would have to move to have the cabinet move. You'll improve transient response with a rigid connection instead of compliant padding under and between the cabs (or gaskets between driver chassis and cabinet lip)... This of course matters more with the woofer where excursion and mass are both at their greatest and is somewhat subtle, but it's a good rule to abide whenever possible...
Like I said it is subtle. Momentum (mass X velocity) is conserved in the universe, barring relativistic phenomena of extreme gravity and near-light velocity. The ratio of cone mass to cabinet mass is about equal to the ratio of cabinet velocity (vibration) to cone velocity. Spike-coupling to a house makes cabinet mass (from the voice coil's perspective) approach infinity and thus its velocity approach zero, but how much more does an uncoupled cabinet weigh than a speaker diaphragm? Quite a bit I'd say. Use your own judgement and be happy with your results!
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