I see. How about placing speakers at 4m right wall, facing left? You will have much more space behind your listening position.
38% rule: https://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm
I don't think horn itself is a problem for close listening position, it just would slightly diminish a benefit of using large horn.
38% rule: https://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm
I don't think horn itself is a problem for close listening position, it just would slightly diminish a benefit of using large horn.
Yes, definitely place the speakers on the 4m wall, then both speakers will have equal boundary wall enforcement and you will be able to sit a bit further away. As you have them in your drawing, the left speaker will not sound the same as the right.
That, or catercorner in the alcove, which is the best overall option as it randomizes all but the vertical and even then is easy to install a > 1:12 slope down to the corner, setting screen height ~13" below current ceiling height and the super large rear room acts as a natural bass trap down to the ~19 Hz lowest room mode.
XO point? Desired polar response? I'm wondering why a 1.4 w/12".
XO point? Desired polar response? I'm wondering why a 1.4 w/12".
I'm trying to incorporate some of the suggestions above. Here is a new idea: A mix of the Troels 3wc-12 and the Asathor.
For Troels 2wc-12 I've taken the dimensions of the Troels 3wc-12. For the Calpamos 12" I've scaled (the front) by 0.8. Based on these raw sketches, I like the Calpamos 12" best. Width and depth are both around 40cm though. Should I be worried about standing waves?
For Troels 2wc-12 I've taken the dimensions of the Troels 3wc-12. For the Calpamos 12" I've scaled (the front) by 0.8. Based on these raw sketches, I like the Calpamos 12" best. Width and depth are both around 40cm though. Should I be worried about standing waves?
Is there any reason that you want to shrink speakers?
Small speakers like these require higher speaker stands, so the the space factor would not be that different, and it tends to look somewhat unbalanced in a room due to high speaker stand.
There are some advantages choosing 12" besides space factor, so it's all depends on your goal, but 15"+horn sound different from 12"+horn, and I generally prefer 15".
Small speakers like these require higher speaker stands, so the the space factor would not be that different, and it tends to look somewhat unbalanced in a room due to high speaker stand.
There are some advantages choosing 12" besides space factor, so it's all depends on your goal, but 15"+horn sound different from 12"+horn, and I generally prefer 15".
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Remarks like these:
The depth of the Calpamos is quite large.
Can't find 1.4" horns.
https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/product-detail/hf950/292733https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/product-detail/hf94/292683https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/product-detail/hf64/292713https://faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Horns/product_details/index.php?id=903020105https://faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Horns/product_details/index.php?id=903020105https://www.eighteensound.it/en/products/horn/1-4/0/XR1496C
This is a 5 minutes search!! It's just a handful what's available...
This is a 5 minutes search!! It's just a handful what's available...
You will experience standing waves with (only) two LF sources in a listening room. In the L-shape of your room the will be more difficult to predict than in a rectangular room. What are your worries?
I listen at 2.7 m away from my enormous Peavey SP2(2004) speakers. 15"+1.4"CD. I have them turned to face me on the couch. If I'm going to eat in the kitchen 30 m away I can turn them straight through the double door operning. They are on poles overhead, pro 3 legged speaker stands. Wattage is about 1/4 to 1 except in fortissimo passages. Sensitivity is 98 db 1w1m. My walls are lined with LP racks, bookshelves, couches, pianos & organs to break up standing waves. Floor is carpet, ceiling is acoustic panels.
Here is a 7"x18" bolt on horn for 4 bolt 1.4" drivers like eminence. https://www.ebay.com/itm/231420420855?hash=item35e1bb62f7:g:E6gAAOSwhglTxvJm
Not suggesting you buy from US, since it is probably made in orient, but you can search for the same thing in UK.
The eminence H2EA cast aluminum horn is 12.4"x7.3" which I think is a little narrow. My Peavey horns are 7"x17". I'm happy with plastic horns. Peavey horns project down about 10 degrees to serve crowds in bars and dance halls better. I have the stands behind a Hammond organ. TV is in another room with much cheaper speakers.
Here is a 7"x18" bolt on horn for 4 bolt 1.4" drivers like eminence. https://www.ebay.com/itm/231420420855?hash=item35e1bb62f7:g:E6gAAOSwhglTxvJm
Not suggesting you buy from US, since it is probably made in orient, but you can search for the same thing in UK.
The eminence H2EA cast aluminum horn is 12.4"x7.3" which I think is a little narrow. My Peavey horns are 7"x17". I'm happy with plastic horns. Peavey horns project down about 10 degrees to serve crowds in bars and dance halls better. I have the stands behind a Hammond organ. TV is in another room with much cheaper speakers.
And the sound quality is quite high....see the connection yet?....lol, I guess thats kinda crude. I just mean that bigger is better sometimes. I woulnd't get too caught up on dimensions...You can find a woofer/cab size combo to suite your needs. Say the Calpmos....If you were to sacrifice some depth to suit your needs it would still be a good design...less efficient towards bass but truthfully no 2 way only system is completely free from harmful excursion unless a subwoofer is used. Thats were my studies have led me at least. So in the idea of a full sized Calpmos vs a Smaller one.....they both need a sub for my expectations and neither of them are good enough without....just one is closer than the other... and then in the case of either Sized Calpamos. with subs, they would both be nice to have. in either or any case, the Larger accumulated Woofer surface area, used, will have less distortion, all else equal.
IF you are going to use an active eq, then its really easy to change the roll off which is the same as changing the system Q. Which is good to know if you care about a target Q....
It turns into Accumulated woofer sd and Cabinet Volume being two aspects that if increased, LF efficiency is increased(distortion reduced).....just because you can't reach the original designs performance (aka you shrink the box) doesn't mean there isn't still enough headroom to feed your situation.... in particular if you incorporate another woofer to focus on carrying the load of the lower spectrum that demands that most excursion. It all depends on your expectations, desires, your room size, listening level vs distance, media content etc...
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I could go for lower to no speaker stand and use that for enclosure volume. Also limiting the volume to 150l and tuning the ports a bit, doesn't change things that much according to VituixCad. Depth of 40cm should be possible and looks a lot better (using my 'prototypes').
My rule of thumb for my design was "as big as I could tolerate"...and then stuff as much sd in there as I sensibly could.
hindsight...I wonder, if for subwoofer, why not a woofer on every baffle lol, slightly kidding
my mains ended up with a horn+15+dual 18"s ....the 15" will never see much excursion, the 18"s is the heavy lifters
Think like a large TMM 2.5 way where the middle woofer roll off is adjusted to tailor excursion performance to keep low at volume.
If just focusing on the 2 way aspect, keep an eye on excursion when simulating listening volumes at listening distance. You dont want to leave xmax...but to be even more strict, you dont want the woofer crossing over to horn to ever have really stretch its legs too far, maybe more than 2-3mm xmax? The more excursion the more distortion, and bass has much less resolution in our ears so best to keep excursion low or.....down low, meaning whatever is producing mids and tweets, never strain much.
hindsight...I wonder, if for subwoofer, why not a woofer on every baffle lol, slightly kidding
my mains ended up with a horn+15+dual 18"s ....the 15" will never see much excursion, the 18"s is the heavy lifters
Think like a large TMM 2.5 way where the middle woofer roll off is adjusted to tailor excursion performance to keep low at volume.
If just focusing on the 2 way aspect, keep an eye on excursion when simulating listening volumes at listening distance. You dont want to leave xmax...but to be even more strict, you dont want the woofer crossing over to horn to ever have really stretch its legs too far, maybe more than 2-3mm xmax? The more excursion the more distortion, and bass has much less resolution in our ears so best to keep excursion low or.....down low, meaning whatever is producing mids and tweets, never strain much.
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Some inspiration and ideas from two manufacturers of parts worth considering
https://celestion.com/blog/build-this-compact-12-two-way-pa-cabinet-design/
https://www.eighteensound.it/en/resources/suggested-designs/
JBL uses 1.4" exit for their Pro line. This waveguide PTH-1010HF-1 is particularly good in controlling and dispersing evenly down to a reasonable crossover frequency, due to being tall on the vertical dimension too: https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/jbl-442730-001-pth1010hf-1-waveguide/
Find Fluid advice very valuable according the op wished road map.
My two cents, sligthy off topic but to add water: I believe, the stereo and tonal equilibrium will be so-so due to the room area chosen. Too much closer of one side wall, opposite side open, listen position too much close from the rear wall, big drivers too much close of front and side wall and fire-place, all of that will enhance a boomy signature.
I would go for a higher -F3 with a 12PR320 or will use the 15PR400 sealed (while the F10 will be higher than with a BR).
Putting the speaker on the 4 m wall instead, with a loudspeaker spacing of approximative 2m and the seat at 2 m max of the loudspeakers fronts would make sense. Imho, but off topic ! While it's a good idea for the listener not being too close from a wall behind, and also better away from close side walls. if window is a problem then closer to the angles of walls which will make a sorta of 90° horn ! (Pi speakers like ?)
A narrow dispersion horn (60° horizontal max so Xt1464 or LTH142 come to mind)) makes sense with the original loudspeaker area planned. But here, I would have planed a classic two way with a 5" + 1" and a portable subwoofer sumed below 125 to 80 hz with adjustable spl level.
Something nice to try could be an open bafle with the 15PR500 if you are active and can apply a Linkwitz transform because of both the OB loss and narrow bafle, with a felt load behind that can be on a square open patern to look like a monkey coffin (like what did Vandersteen with their 2 or 3 model serie, don't remember which one has a fabric sock around it.
My two cents, sligthy off topic but to add water: I believe, the stereo and tonal equilibrium will be so-so due to the room area chosen. Too much closer of one side wall, opposite side open, listen position too much close from the rear wall, big drivers too much close of front and side wall and fire-place, all of that will enhance a boomy signature.
I would go for a higher -F3 with a 12PR320 or will use the 15PR400 sealed (while the F10 will be higher than with a BR).
Putting the speaker on the 4 m wall instead, with a loudspeaker spacing of approximative 2m and the seat at 2 m max of the loudspeakers fronts would make sense. Imho, but off topic ! While it's a good idea for the listener not being too close from a wall behind, and also better away from close side walls. if window is a problem then closer to the angles of walls which will make a sorta of 90° horn ! (Pi speakers like ?)
A narrow dispersion horn (60° horizontal max so Xt1464 or LTH142 come to mind)) makes sense with the original loudspeaker area planned. But here, I would have planed a classic two way with a 5" + 1" and a portable subwoofer sumed below 125 to 80 hz with adjustable spl level.
Something nice to try could be an open bafle with the 15PR500 if you are active and can apply a Linkwitz transform because of both the OB loss and narrow bafle, with a felt load behind that can be on a square open patern to look like a monkey coffin (like what did Vandersteen with their 2 or 3 model serie, don't remember which one has a fabric sock around it.
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Don't know why one would want vertical evenness. I don't listen to speakers 1 m away, I'm 2.5 to 12 m away. 30 deg vertical dispersion is fine to cover both standing & sitting persons. One reason I have speakers up on stands, to project over furniture.
I don't use a sub either. 54 hz - 3db out of 15" woofer is fine, and it is only 20 db down @ 30 hz, so 32' organ pipes are audible if not belly shaking.