@Plott, VERY neat, I must say. You are very much into perfection 😊
This evening, I had a brief test run of the speakers after dampening the rears. First impression is that they were less loud in the midrange, a problem might be induced by my narrower baffles and the tweeter closer to the rear wing than original. Overall more relaxed. I did not place them too accurate towards my listening position due to lack of time though. So tomorrow when I have the house for myself, Ill put some more sound levels from them.
Overall, for now it promises good things.
Return after next sound check.
/Arne
This evening, I had a brief test run of the speakers after dampening the rears. First impression is that they were less loud in the midrange, a problem might be induced by my narrower baffles and the tweeter closer to the rear wing than original. Overall more relaxed. I did not place them too accurate towards my listening position due to lack of time though. So tomorrow when I have the house for myself, Ill put some more sound levels from them.
Overall, for now it promises good things.
Return after next sound check.
/Arne
Ugly-nitas finally received last parts, and are now plugged in.
Jeeeeeeeezus_christ_almighty:
Never have I ever heard a good pair of speakers before
OR headphones for that matter...
sincerely thanks to Pano for keeping this thread Up and alive and John for inventing the whole goddamn thing.
I am totally amazed and will probaby continue to be for the next week or month every time I switch on the amplifier.
Thank you
Sampo
Ps. all this while still streaming through spotify
Jeeeeeeeezus_christ_almighty:
Never have I ever heard a good pair of speakers before
OR headphones for that matter...
sincerely thanks to Pano for keeping this thread Up and alive and John for inventing the whole goddamn thing.
I am totally amazed and will probaby continue to be for the next week or month every time I switch on the amplifier.
Thank you
Sampo
Ps. all this while still streaming through spotify
Attachments
@nouvolare, many thanks 
Also thanks for the first report, looking for more.
@SandWich000, cool, enjoy
Mine are finished too
First listening at lower volume - great soundstage! Boy, WHAT a soundstage!! This is maybe the biggest argument for this speaker - the stage has width, depth and height. I know this kind of height only from a Magnepan of one of my friends. The second thing - the liveliness, great. Clear mids without screaming (a big point for an FR driver). Mark Knopfler stands in my living room. At the lower end, I miss some depth and pressure and punch - but I noticed during the listening, that the Peerless 12" improves very much, so I think the bass will come. I'm now playing with the placement, and there is substancial more bass now with about 70 cm distance to the wall. The - now - optimum angle is about 10-15° off axis; turned the speakers straight to the sweet spot there was too much upper mids. Maybe I will play with the attenuation of the TC9, later.
Well I am extremely satisfied
Many thanks to John and to @Pano
Also thanks for the first report, looking for more.@SandWich000, cool, enjoy
Mine are finished too
First listening at lower volume - great soundstage! Boy, WHAT a soundstage!! This is maybe the biggest argument for this speaker - the stage has width, depth and height. I know this kind of height only from a Magnepan of one of my friends. The second thing - the liveliness, great. Clear mids without screaming (a big point for an FR driver). Mark Knopfler stands in my living room. At the lower end, I miss some depth and pressure and punch - but I noticed during the listening, that the Peerless 12" improves very much, so I think the bass will come. I'm now playing with the placement, and there is substancial more bass now with about 70 cm distance to the wall. The - now - optimum angle is about 10-15° off axis; turned the speakers straight to the sweet spot there was too much upper mids. Maybe I will play with the attenuation of the TC9, later.
Well I am extremely satisfied
Many thanks to John and to @Pano
Thank you for the build reports Istvan and Sampo! Glad to read that both are working well. The Manzanita is surprising for such a simple speaker. Sometimes things just work.
This should also let you understand why I roll my eyes when people say that soundstage and imaging are poor with Open Baffle. Now you know that's not true.
Like any speaker, it's worth taking the time to find a listening position and the right amount of toe-in (or out). At first it takes take and a lot of different attempts, but soon enough you'll home in on where they should be and then adjustments will be subtle. At that point you can start adjusting the crossover for the TC9. As time passes and you listen to more and more music you will settle on an adjustment that works. With Open Baffle there is much more reflected high and midrange than we are used to with box speakers, so that takes some time to get used to in making adjustments.
This should also let you understand why I roll my eyes when people say that soundstage and imaging are poor with Open Baffle. Now you know that's not true.
Like any speaker, it's worth taking the time to find a listening position and the right amount of toe-in (or out). At first it takes take and a lot of different attempts, but soon enough you'll home in on where they should be and then adjustments will be subtle. At that point you can start adjusting the crossover for the TC9. As time passes and you listen to more and more music you will settle on an adjustment that works. With Open Baffle there is much more reflected high and midrange than we are used to with box speakers, so that takes some time to get used to in making adjustments.
I had read this thread many times, and I admit that all pictures supplied in it has inspired me to build my own pair. As I decided to maker the baffles more narrow, I perhaps overdid them. But I am not a person who just aren't doing things by the book if there is any. So by esthetical reasons, I narrowed them down and made the wings deeper. It is not by much, perhaps in total a narrowing by 2 inches more than recommended. It has been a bit of struggle sometimes, and I must say it is only my stubborness that has kept me towards the goal, to make them audible for both "easy" music to more complex (rock). So today I went home from work at the lunch as I work in a company that make surveillance drones 700 meters from where I live. Ate a fast lunch an sat down to listen on how my internally dampened Manzanitas would sound.
So how do they sound? The damping made them in a lack of better words...calmer. The soundstage might not be so big as before, but still sound great. It simply isn't so much going on now as it used to, and I like that.
In the end it all comes down to personal taste and this really works for me. I can listen to David Brubeck Quartet or Miles Davis and really enjoy. Pink Floyd, Sophie Zelmani and other singer/songwriter music just makes me wanna listen more. And finally, they can reproduce rock tracks to an enjoyable listening degree. Ghosts latest release sounded quite well, I suspect it is well produced. Pink, AC/DC sounds nice, Led Zeppelin actually sounds better on these than previously on my boxed speakers.
All in all, for the money put into them, they sound really good with a quality and free from boxiness that is refreshing.
So now, all that are left is the back side fabric, front covers and Sonic Design feets to finish it all off. I'll return with pictures.
Thanks @Pano for all advice and help, and thanks @John Busch for an excellent construction.
All the best regards from Sweden.
/Arne
So how do they sound? The damping made them in a lack of better words...calmer. The soundstage might not be so big as before, but still sound great. It simply isn't so much going on now as it used to, and I like that.
In the end it all comes down to personal taste and this really works for me. I can listen to David Brubeck Quartet or Miles Davis and really enjoy. Pink Floyd, Sophie Zelmani and other singer/songwriter music just makes me wanna listen more. And finally, they can reproduce rock tracks to an enjoyable listening degree. Ghosts latest release sounded quite well, I suspect it is well produced. Pink, AC/DC sounds nice, Led Zeppelin actually sounds better on these than previously on my boxed speakers.
All in all, for the money put into them, they sound really good with a quality and free from boxiness that is refreshing.
So now, all that are left is the back side fabric, front covers and Sonic Design feets to finish it all off. I'll return with pictures.
Thanks @Pano for all advice and help, and thanks @John Busch for an excellent construction.
All the best regards from Sweden.
/Arne
Hey Arne, glad to hear that you are making progress.
Before you start building the rear covers, is there any way that you can make a clean removal of your top wing? John and I have used a top wing on some builds, but usually not full width and not square shape. If you have any way of trying the speakers without the top wing, or with one that is only half width, give it a try.
Before you start building the rear covers, is there any way that you can make a clean removal of your top wing? John and I have used a top wing on some builds, but usually not full width and not square shape. If you have any way of trying the speakers without the top wing, or with one that is only half width, give it a try.
Unfortunately not, and I wonder how my choice of top wing has affected the design. I must admit that I missed that the top wing was not a part of the original design..
Of course, a holesaw would ventilate the top but it is a bit irreversible as well. What would the benefits be if I did that, in theory?
/Arne
Of course, a holesaw would ventilate the top but it is a bit irreversible as well. What would the benefits be if I did that, in theory?
/Arne
Hi Pano,
luckily I'm not thinking that way and create my opinion only after I have the experience and luckily I had no preconceptions
For me however is surprising, how gorgeous such a cheap construction sings.
Today, the sound improves more, after 10+ of total listening, and it will improve after further 100+ hours, I'm sure.
I tried different kinds of music; I think, jazz is where this speakers are really at home, followed by acoustic instruments/singer/songwriter. With bigger soundmasses there is (for me and now) some "confusion", but it could improve and playing with the TC9 attenuation could solve this "issue".
It's interesting, but the speakers clearly show how good or bad a record is, and yes, they don't like bad records.
Further impressions will follow.
If I remember correctly it took a while for them to settle in. Early on there was a bit of an edge which went away over time. That will likely make bad recordings sound a bit better.
I think you'd end up with fewer cavity resonances. Looking at your build it looks a little boxy - certainly it's a very open box, but it has more and closer cavity than the original design. Of course you have mitigated some of that with the foam, which is good. The modification would be up to you, don't mutilate your speakers if you don't feel good about it. But you've mentioned some problems and they are right in line with what I see from your build.
One thing you might try is a temporary double or triple layer of foam on that top wing. You should be able to hear if it makes a difference. If you give us your exact build dimensions (in cm) I might be able to see what's happening in a simulation.
Indeed, that may be one of the issues going on. I'll try the tip of the extra foam on top ronsee if it gets any better. Must say that now, with the foam, they really sound good and nice. Perhaps that foam was all that they needed. But of course, it would be interesting to share my numbers to see if a simulation will reveal something.
The outside measurements are:
H 680mm
W 320mm
D 150mm
Inside measurements are:
H 640mm
W 280mm
D 130mm
Thanks for the support 😊👍
I took one of the last steps today to make the speakers more representable in my livingroom. Crude MDF board does not fly well with my wife, although she is very understanding of my build.
Anyway, I took black loudspeaker front fabric and sewed a back cover for them. They are attached with velcro for easy access to the rear. Unscrewed the terminals and made holes in the fabric and screwed them in place. It looks very neat and tidy.
Just the front covers left. I am still pondering about to saw circular frames for each element in plywood, glue the fabric to them, glue magnets in the same pattern as the fastening screws for the elements...
Or just make a square frame and attach the fabric to it...
Anyway, I took black loudspeaker front fabric and sewed a back cover for them. They are attached with velcro for easy access to the rear. Unscrewed the terminals and made holes in the fabric and screwed them in place. It looks very neat and tidy.
Just the front covers left. I am still pondering about to saw circular frames for each element in plywood, glue the fabric to them, glue magnets in the same pattern as the fastening screws for the elements...
Or just make a square frame and attach the fabric to it...
Looks really good, Arne!
Listening time today: 6.5 hours
Fine tauning... I think I have an issue with the bass section. From the 12" Peerless woofer I would expect plenty of bass, but I miss the punch (I mean, that's whining at a high level, there is a very nice bass). So I think I have to change something. I use an 18 mH coil - I could use a 22 mH instead. I don't use the woofer trap - should I try it? The distance to the wall is about 75 cm, the height of the speaker stands is 22".
Regarding R1 and R1: increasing of R1 would decrease the volume of the TC9, and increasing of R2 would decrease the highs - is that right? Thanks a lot in advance.
Listening time today: 6.5 hours
Fine tauning... I think I have an issue with the bass section. From the 12" Peerless woofer I would expect plenty of bass, but I miss the punch (I mean, that's whining at a high level, there is a very nice bass). So I think I have to change something. I use an 18 mH coil - I could use a 22 mH instead. I don't use the woofer trap - should I try it? The distance to the wall is about 75 cm, the height of the speaker stands is 22".
Regarding R1 and R1: increasing of R1 would decrease the volume of the TC9, and increasing of R2 would decrease the highs - is that right? Thanks a lot in advance.
Before you change the crossover spend some time moving them around. The open baffle speakers react differently to a room than a box speaker but they are still VERY sensitive to placement. Mine tend to get more bass when they are 3 or 4 feet from the wall. Sidewalls sometimes have an impact, too.
Let them settle in for many hours and move them about and live with them in several positions for a bit. Crossover tweaks come later, IMHO.
The back covers look nice. My wife asked me to make some like that - but I never did. Thanks for the dimensions, I'll see if simulation shows anything.
FWIW here is a mock-up a friend of mine in London did years ago when he was planning a Manzanita with an larger fullrange speaker. He never built them, but his idea looks nice.
Thanks for the dimensions, I'll see if simulation shows anything.FWIW here is a mock-up a friend of mine in London did years ago when he was planning a Manzanita with an larger fullrange speaker. He never built them, but his idea looks nice.