How better is a Turntable compared to a CD?

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#2,501
DF96 said:
When did that start happening? Did someone suddenly change the rules by which fashion markets operate without telling me?

At the low end of any market it may be true that quality varies with price. At the top end people are paying for something quite different: exclusivity, bragging rights, fashion, 'hand-made' (often inferior to machine-made), designer logos, 'good' marketing stories. Why else would people pay a fortune for a watch which tells the time in exactly the same way and with the same accuracy as a very cheap one? Why else would people buy an expensive European car which keeps breaking down and guzzles fuel when a cheap Japanese car would get them reliably from A to B every time?
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Are you suggesting that a Toyota is better than the Italian Lamborghini?

It is impossible to generalize, but I yet have to listen to a properly set up and assorted $10K sound system that sounds better or just like a well setup and properly assorted $50-60K sound system let alone the $100K or over sound system!

It's nice to get the illusion you can get the same quality of a $10 Japanese watch you can get with a Rolex or Cartier to mention few names!😱
 
#2,502
its pretty silly promoting wide DSD formats created for the marketing blurb/intermediate storage during digital editing

when viewed in the light of knowledge of physics, signal theory, the noise, bandwidth limits of electronics, transducers – much less any analog recording technology's limits

Cousin Billy said:
Ahhhhh Northstar, I humbly must agree with you.

In addition to all you said, some albums where cut on a lathe which itself was not perfectly aligned. At the level of my system, I sometimes need to readjust azimuth, now that's a pain.

The question is; is it worth it?. For me it is. The performers are in the room with me, and that is my Holy Grail.

I own an EMM Labs CDSA se. The DAC is internal. There was a time when this $10,000.00 player was ranked among the best on the planet.

Now let me share with you some 'secret' information;
The amount of information (digits) on a DSD master hard drive is staggering. It is known by industry insiders that a master DSD contains more information than a master tape. A disc, be it CD, SACD, or Blue Ray, cannot hold all this information. It is a matter of storage space. Here is the problem: How to get people to buy dedicated audio computers, than get them to buy a removable hard drive where ONLY ONE album 'fits' onto this $100.00 + 'cartridge'. You've read that correctly. Imagine something like the old style 8 track tape, only a hard drive, and having to carry and/or store hard drives on your shelf.

Well folks, let me be the first to say, as an analogue junky, as soon as 'musical', the performers are in your room, hard drive albums, become available, at any price, I will be the first in line.

DSD is the single greatest way to record an album. We just need to get all this 'information' into our stereo, and that my friends, is a long way away.
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#2,506
kevinkr said:
Strain gauge and ceramic/crystal cartridges do not require external equalization.
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Not without help. I was always told the crystal ones just plowed through the middle of the RIAA. The unlabled plot is a Winn Labs theoretical perfect strain guage. The second is an old Japanese model for quad recordings, not too flat.
 

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#2,507
Interesting, that Panasonic is very popular in certain quarters and seems to have a strongly rising HF response.

I wonder how the Sound Smith strain gauges compare in measured response... I've heard their strain gauge with a sgs-5 stylus and a diy pre.. Sounded just fine, but it left me with no particular impression I can remember. (Last summer)
 
#2,508
kevinkr said:
Interesting, that Panasonic is very popular in certain quarters and seems to have a strongly rising HF response.

I wonder how the Sound Smith strain gauges compare in measured response
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Seems intuitive something recorded with 3 frequency break points played by something with none there would some need to fix something. I have been told that one simple pole down the middle of the RIAA is not that objectionable, never tried it.

BTW the Winn Labs plot looks like there is some mechanical effect at the high end.

Get out the popcorn this has it's own "Blowtorch" thread elsewhere, http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=28750
 
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#2,509
tonitonitoni said:
looks like that 70s lps were soaked in some substance from same age so of course it seems like band is in your house... it is not about money ...why everyone talks about cds y why you dont talk about pc based audio ... with 24/96 flac or pcm music and dac that is not in same box with pc ....that is digital of today ,no transports everything in pc ram.. cds are old now
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Because the thread (title) is Turntable versus CD (player). ...Comparison.
 
#2,510
Now let me share with you some 'secret' information;
The amount of information (digits) on a DSD master hard drive is staggering. It is known by industry insiders that a master DSD contains more information than a master tape. A disc, be it CD, SACD, or Blue Ray, cannot hold all this information.
Click to expand...

FYI, the same thing exists for video. I was described to me by one of our customers. DVDR material deposited on 4"? wide tape running at an incredible speed capable of recording real time uncompressed 32 bit deep 4096p HD video using scanned lasers. No HD's can keep up (at least at the time). It was for real time permanent film archiving/editing.
 
#2,513
Cousin Billy said:
Ahhhhh Northstar, I humbly must agree with you.

In addition to all you said, some albums where cut on a lathe which itself was not perfectly aligned. At the level of my system, I sometimes need to readjust azimuth, now that's a pain.

The question is; is it worth it?. For me it is. The performers are in the room with me, and that is my Holy Grail.
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

There is simply no goddamn way! You might be kidding yourself but you ain't kidding me.

I own an EMM Labs CDSA se. The DAC is internal. There was a time when this $10,000.00 player was ranked among the best on the planet.

Now let me share with you some 'secret' information;
The amount of information (digits) on a DSD master hard drive is staggering. It is known by industry insiders that a master DSD contains more information than a master tape. A disc, be it CD, SACD, or Blue Ray, cannot hold all this information. It is a matter of storage space. Here is the problem: How to get people to buy dedicated audio computers, than get them to buy a removable hard drive where ONLY ONE album 'fits' onto this $100.00 + 'cartridge'. You've read that correctly. Imagine something like the old style 8 track tape, only a hard drive, and having to carry and/or store hard drives on your shelf.

Well folks, let me be the first to say, as an analogue junky, as soon as 'musical', the performers are in your room, hard drive albums, become available, at any price, I will be the first in line.

DSD is the single greatest way to record an album. We just need to get all this 'information' into our stereo, and that my friends, is a long way away.
Click to expand...

Do you have an open-reel tape deck?
 
#2,514
davym said:
Best answer yet. I like others thought it was some kind of residue left from the pressing process. It has the feel of a residue of some kind but you are probably correct in saying it's simply bad pressings.

I like vinyl for it's euphoric effect (mild distortion) but digital is far cleaner and usually better to my ears when done well with recent modern recordings.

This debate is similar to two different religious sects arguing over which one got it 'right'. It will never be resolved, even if it went on for a thousand years!
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And the dynamics! ...Don't forget that digital dynamic range. ...You won't get that with analog, and that is one of the main reasons why most analog people prefer that 'soothing/mellow' sound. ...More relaxing, smoother, outside of real life with all the dynamic irritations and digital aggravated sounds.

Just for example; listen to a crow outside in your own backyard (just few feet from you). And listen to that same crow from an LP, and then from a CD.
...Or a dog barking real loud.
 
#2,515
Stefanoo said:
Unfortunately sound quality is directly proportional to money invested. You might not know that yet as your gears are all cheap and not really have first hand on experience on real expensive stuff!
It sometimes almost easier to translate the concept to cars....can you get the pleasure, comfort, elegance, speed, acceleration, Beauty and so on as so forth of a Lamborghini for $30-40K?
If you do...please let me know and I will buy that car !!!!!!
Maybe you prefer a Ferrari, or a top end Mercedes or a Maserati....in the end though, all these other options are pure subjective preferences and won't come cheap either!
:key:
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You don't know wich gears I'm using, if you really believe SQ is directly correlated to money better don't make DIY simply spend your money in the most expensive gear😀
 
#2,517
merlin el mago said:
Unfortunately or fortunately SQ isn't correlated to money.
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No and yes.

First thing is to have a very good recording no matter: vinyl, CD or HiRez file.

Digital don't needs a special adjust. Analog needs special mechanical adjustement to enjoy it, no matter how much money invested always needs a very good adjustment. I always look for an equilabrated sound: not to much or not to less: lows, mids or highs, If you like classical music could you look for the same tone of natural instrument including human voices.
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You got that one right.
 
#2,519
At the end of this audio journey (TT compared to CD), it's a personal choice and preference (lifestyle) and all that ritualistic jazz.

Some pick a wife for this, others for that. 🙂

* Now I will exit this thread and search for newer/'wower' audio horizons. ...The quality music recordings themselves of the music I love.
...Let see them music threads. 😎
 
#2,520
Stefanoo said:
Oh my god!! What do you want me to tell you?! You obviously still need to learn the basic of decent sound let alone knowing what hi end system is supposed to sound!😱😱
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Pretentious, condescending, patronizing, money tossing snobbery aside, all one needs to compare CD to vinyl system is any mass market CD player, turntable/cart/phono preamplifier of choice, generic headphone amplifier, a $10 pair of earbuds, and some source material for the CD player and some records for the record player.

Inability of vinyl to keep up with digital becomes readily apparent.

Really.
 
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