A 100Hz horn is going to be huge. I don't think you need to go that low. I've tried pushing the horn crossover down as low as possible and it just didn't sound good. Crossover where it actually works the best, not where you hope it will work the best.
what was your low sweet point?
Lowest sweet point for me always ends up around 650-700Hz with a 15 or 18 inch woofer under the horn. Part of that is simply horn size. The horns will play lower, but it usually didn't sound as good. EDIT: never sounds as good
I have worked with 4-way systems using a WE 15A horn for low mid. The 15A
was high passed circa 150Hz, IIRC. It was amazing, but that's not a small horn. It also wasn't used particularly high. Similar points with Vitaphone 11A horns. With a 2-way, you have to compromise.
I have worked with 4-way systems using a WE 15A horn for low mid. The 15A
was high passed circa 150Hz, IIRC. It was amazing, but that's not a small horn.
It also wasn't used particularly high. Similar points with Vitaphone 11A horns. With a 2-way, you have to compromise.I wonder about intermod distortion as the CD is asked to go lower.
It has to apply to CDs too, right?
I've tried taking my 4594he/xt1464 down to 500Hz, but always keep going back to 650Hz. (crossing to 12" rcf mid/lows)
Same pattern with that bms and new dcx464 on the synergies I'm trying to build....the horns easily load to 500Hz, but I keep going back to 650 with both....
Just seems to sound a little more open and fuller at the same time... at 650 than lower, especially when I turn it up.... no clue why really ....as tuning stays flat..
It has to apply to CDs too, right?
I've tried taking my 4594he/xt1464 down to 500Hz, but always keep going back to 650Hz. (crossing to 12" rcf mid/lows)
Same pattern with that bms and new dcx464 on the synergies I'm trying to build....the horns easily load to 500Hz, but I keep going back to 650 with both....
Just seems to sound a little more open and fuller at the same time... at 650 than lower, especially when I turn it up.... no clue why really ....as tuning stays flat..
It's always nice to read about your experiences Pano.
In general, the lowest usable fequency for a mid/high horn is around 500Hz. Indeed, similar to the early cinema systems: Shearer, A2 etc.
300-400Hz is possible, but you'll have to resort to some sort of slot, vanes, sectors or cells - if you want to have some directivity, and also accept a certain 'form-factor'.
Another option would be an Inlow-type of horn, provided you don't mind serious beaming.
In general, the lowest usable fequency for a mid/high horn is around 500Hz. Indeed, similar to the early cinema systems: Shearer, A2 etc.
300-400Hz is possible, but you'll have to resort to some sort of slot, vanes, sectors or cells - if you want to have some directivity, and also accept a certain 'form-factor'.
Another option would be an Inlow-type of horn, provided you don't mind serious beaming.
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Mark, I am not sure the XT1464 is big enough to work well at 500Hz.
Similarly, the HF950 would load the driver at 500Hz, but it wasn't intended to be used below 650Hz,
This XT1465 easily loads a coaxial from 300Hz:
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And it will be a lot larger than the rear loudspeaker unit, the horn cone walls are not transparent to sound waves, some of them are diffracted and refracted and some others are probably evanescent if there is enough energy.
With the largest possible radiating surface and a very compact horn you have more direct sound than distorded sound.
Yes, I haven't been under the illusion the xt1464 can load to 500Hz.
But I have been thinking it could at least act as a waveguide to 500Hz...figuring i might not like the lack of pattern control, but that I could at least listen to how the lower crossover point sounds.
A few questions just to double check..
When we use the term load, we're talking about when the horn does some impedance matching and actually raises the efficiency of the driver, right?
And that "loading" is what makes it safe to driver the CD lower without risking over excursion, true?
I've been thinking I could test below loading, in the 'pure wave guide zone', as long as levels were kept relatively low....anybody see problems/risks there?
Hey Ro808, how can I get one of those XT1465s to try to fit some synergy cones on to it
It's true that operation below Fs is less efficient than above, for the most part, because Fc is above Fs. Fc will be maximally efficient in a sealed box, but less sensitive than the bandwidth above- Efficiency doesn't equal sensitivity when there's a big impedance spike limiting current required for a given output.
Unless I'm missing what you're saying.
"The whole spectrum" perceivable by a listener suffering from hearing loss (due to age ?): Sure, no problem.
Are we able to cover "the whole bandwidth" - of a normal Listener - with just 2 Ways (each made up using a single Driver) while maintaining "seamless directivity" (high spl, low distortion etc.): Difficult !
Are we able to cover "the whole bandwidth" - of a normal Listener - with just 2 Ways (each made up using a single Driver) while maintaining "seamless directivity" (high spl, low distortion etc.): Difficult !
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Great conversation guys, I need to go back and thoroughly read the latest post, just wanted to comment;
It has been suggested that loading, if not purely, at least, is most influenced by, the length of the throat and the suggested best practice was somewhere from 1/2 to 1 WL in length of the lowest note to be produced.
It has been suggested that loading, if not purely, at least, is most influenced by, the length of the throat and the suggested best practice was somewhere from 1/2 to 1 WL in length of the lowest note to be produced.
A few questions just to double check..
When we use the term load, we're talking about when the horn does some impedance matching and actually raises the efficiency of the driver, right?
And that "loading" is what makes it safe to driver the CD lower without risking over excursion, true?
I've been thinking I could test below loading, in the 'pure wave guide zone', as long as levels were kept relatively low....anybody see problems/risks there?
Hey Ro808, how can I get one of those XT1465s to try to fit some synergy cones on to it
The cut off frequency is roughly the point below which the throat impedance is reactive and subsequently there's no loading of the driver. Naturally, the risk of damage is higher at and below cut off.
Above cut off the horn starts to load the driver, but it may take a few hundred Hz (depending on the horn flare) before the impedance is purely resistive.
The XT1465 was developed some time ago for the BMS 4590 and 4592, so it's a 2" horn. You'll find more info in this thread, though many images are gone.
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This is more or less what I referred to.
However, I prefer to consider sensitivity independently of efficiency.
Yes basically, but it's not that simple.
For example: what exactly is a compact horn?
Why and when would it contribute to more direct and less distorted sound?
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I am tempted to try that once. It definitely looks better than the XT1464 but will not load as deep. OTOH the mounting can be done much smoother than with the XT1464.
HiFi wise there are a few implementations using it , some Crites designs and the Unison Max 2 for instance.
Regards
Charles
HiFi wise there are a few implementations using it , some Crites designs and the Unison Max 2 for instance.
Regards
Charles