Hi, sorry for being so inactive during the summer.
My preamp project has reached it's final, don't know about PixelPlay.
Haven't touched the whole system for almost a year. Lately I have been thinking to make my speakers smaller. One option would be to get TAD 2401/TSM-1 replica cabinets for the TD-4001 and TL1602 woofers which I already own. I would not make the cabinets myself, but let some more skilled carpenter make them.
Noguchi has stopped selling the Finemet and other transformers at least under their own brand.
My preamp project has reached it's final, don't know about PixelPlay.
Haven't touched the whole system for almost a year. Lately I have been thinking to make my speakers smaller
. One option would be to get TAD 2401/TSM-1 replica cabinets for the TD-4001 and TL1602 woofers which I already own. I would not make the cabinets myself, but let some more skilled carpenter make them.Noguchi has stopped selling the Finemet and other transformers at least under their own brand.
Clip: YouTube
^
(the clip has 115hz LPF due to room modes would otherwise dominate the close to the wall located camera/mic)
Sooo... my new speakers, Usher D3's with modified Usher D2 xo's. Just a quick recap of the project...
Drivers are TAD TD-4001 and TAD TL-1602.
The transfer function (referenced to flat response, not acoustical) of the orig. xo (gray) and what changes I made to it's balance.
Crossover caps are very good price to performance ratio (and huge in size, bigger than Duelund Cast Cu) Miflex KPAL-series (aluminum foil, paper and polypropylene in oil), resistors 2W Audio Note non-mag tantalums (I cannot burn them with my 8 watts from 300B), Mundorf copper foil coil.
Woofers have only acoustical filtering to flatten the impedance of the speakers.
Fostex T500A mk2 supertweeters act also as a Zobel filters (due to their flat impedance) and thus have a tailored xo for this job with slightly too low xo-point them being "supertweeters". They radiate indirectly to the listening spot from the top of the speakers, being invisible from the spot (yet can be heard). This way they don't mess with the imaging and cannot be localized.
Impedance with fully electrically xo'ed speaker (gray) vs. with acoustical xo'ed woofers and "Zobel-tweeters":
The sound is open, present and tactile/coherent and has all the hifi adjetives. Bass is quite a bit more prone to suffer from the room than my previous bass setup, but is nicely coherent being 2-way.
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Congratulations for the minimalistification! Less is more? Any plans to to buy a wooden house to get rid of bass modes?
It is long time since my last visit, I might call you some day and ask for audition, after I get some music out of my 1.4 clones!
I have smaller speakers, caps and dog, alas percentage!
It is long time since my last visit, I might call you some day and ask for audition, after I get some music out of my 1.4 clones!
I have smaller speakers, caps and dog, alas percentage!
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Yep less is more currently. Goal was to implement the crown jewel drivers of my previous system in a more simple and acoustically more easily managed system, that is smaller and nicer looking. Ushers weight a ton though, almost literally.You should come and listen some day, you will like them. I'm very happy how the TAD drivers sound in the TAD TH-4001 horn clones, they are such a lovely couple with my electronics.
1.4 clones you say, what coaxial drivers are you using? Minidsp or will you try passive xo like the role model?
Me, passive? No way, I am a radical activist!
To be honest I'm just too lazy and untalented in mathematics to start learning simulations and construction of passive crossover networks. The cap is just to protect the the tweeter from those haphazard pops and hums that happen with active systems.
Ony the woofer is similar to Gradient. Hypex FA123 (dsp and Ncore amps) this time. Proto works with minidsp 2x4HD. My thread is here.
To be honest I'm just too lazy and untalented in mathematics to start learning simulations and construction of passive crossover networks. The cap is just to protect the the tweeter from those haphazard pops and hums that happen with active systems.
Ony the woofer is similar to Gradient. Hypex FA123 (dsp and Ncore amps) this time. Proto works with minidsp 2x4HD. My thread is here.
Hei Legis,
Congrats on the Ushers and your outstanding system. They sound great on the youtube clip. Your red synergy horns also sounded amazing on youtube.
Having had synergy horns and now having the Ushers what's your thoughts on the sound signature of the synergy horns? Was there something about the sound that irritated you after a while?
Happy New Year
Hei Legis,
Congrats on the Ushers and your outstanding system. They sound great on the youtube clip. Your red synergy horns also sounded amazing on youtube.
Having had synergy horns and now having the Ushers what's your thoughts on the sound signature of the synergy horns? Was there something about the sound that irritated you after a while?
Happy New Year
Both systems have much of the same tonal qualities to them because of the same drivers and electronics but they project the sound differently. Actually it's quite peculiar how "same" they sound in some manner. TH4001 horns with TD4001 have more open sound (radiate wider) and they sound very hifi, clear, present and snappy. I'd say they are ultimately more "right" horns for the comp drivers than my Synergy horns were. However front horns were much more accurate in the lower middle and upper bass range than the direct radiating woofers of the Ushers.
----------------------------------------------
Anybody want to participate in a unscientific (and arguably stupid) "blind" listening test?
Here's two clips miked from the mouth of the TH4001 horns, first the left channel and then the right channel.
Do you feel the sound between the left and the right channels are identical/inseparable in both clips? If not, do you feel they sound different in both clips and if the amount of difference is as big in both clips? If they sound more the same in the other clip, in which clip?
(Sorry the level is not same in both clips. I turned the volume down in the second clip so the dynamic compressor of the came would not interfere.)
Clip 1: YouTube
Clip 2: YouTube
Thanks. That's good to know. I hope your big DIY horns have gone into a good home as they sounded amazing on Youtube. I'm missing them!
I tried your TH4001 left/right clips and really tried to hear a difference but couldn't - I expect better ears can hear what I cant.
Yes they went to a good home and also the new owner loves them. These Ushers were his ex-speakers. He had slight problems with these (original crossovers are not the most allround) but I knew I can get them work to my linking since I had heard Usher D2's multiple times. And as it turned out the crossovers needed just a little tweaking, but they already were correct in some details for TAD's like purely series resistance level adjustment (no l-pad, just series res).
He also has better and bigger room than me, so the trade was a win-win situation for both of us.
By the way the Audio Note 2W non-mag tant resistors sound fantastic as a series res/current drive res in the comp driver's xo. I had used these resistors extensively in my tube electronics before and decided to try them slightly unconvetionally in an xo. I need 50-100w amp to burn them so the 2W rating does not matter in my xo. To tell if they are better than Duelund Cast resistors, it would need some comparison. I have used both but not in same xo. I'm slightly prone to believe that the tants are more mellow, warm and slightly cleaner in treble, but this is just a hunch.
Also the physically massive Miflex KPAL caps seems to have very good price to quality ratio if the user seeks the same sound qualities than me. I see them one of the very best "cheap" alternative to Duelund Cast Cu caps. My cup of tea is not pure non-oily plastic caps, teflon caps etc. so adjust my comments based on that fact. To my liking the caps need to be mechanically damped, they should not exhibit any harshness, grainyness or glare in high freqs. I'm allergic to that sh*t.
Hi Legis,
Wow looks like you have been busy
I had put my system on hold for a while. I am planning on playing around with the coincident by using a mercury vapour rectifier and perhaps some output caps if I can figure out the size needed, perhaps some duelund tinned copper, for the added 12db gain.
Cant wait to see what you are going to do next.... scary!
All the best
Greg
Wow looks like you have been busy
I had put my system on hold for a while. I am planning on playing around with the coincident by using a mercury vapour rectifier and perhaps some output caps if I can figure out the size needed, perhaps some duelund tinned copper, for the added 12db gain.
Cant wait to see what you are going to do next.... scary!
All the best
Greg
Has been quiet for too long in this thread
Let me introduce to you my latest project, sealed line array subs/music basses. I have had U-frame line arrays with 18" BMS woofers before, so this is quite like back to the roots -project for me. Couple of days ago got them up an runnin'.
Had the enclosures made by professionals and did the rest myself. Was a good choice, the outcome is quite like commecial quality inside and out.
Material is 25mm MDF with some braces. The front baffle also has 11mm OSB panel laminated behind it. Outer dimension are 115x65x40cm, gross volume is ~225 litres. The woofers in each module rest in shared air space to even out the variances when connected in series.
The woofers Fane FC-153F01: FC-153F01
Terminals Viablue R-150: VIABLUE™ R-150 Bi-Wire speaker terminal silver incl. T6s binding posts
Inside cabling Viablue SC-1 tin plated: VIABLUE™ SC-1 Silver speaker cable
Regarding the driver choice the goals were to get very snappy and tactile bass reproduction that does not skip a beat nor miss a tone of the double bass. So high motoric force to Mms ratio. Good behaving cone so the modules are not "couple octave wonders" and can be xo'ed with 1-2 order filters excellently (or even in a 2-way system). High Qms/low Rms suspension was also "would be nice" feature and too much friction can make the sound somehow "damped" and not as dynamic subjectively (also if one dampens the box too much as it also lowers the Qms). Maybe these mechanical parametres are not linear in low spl levels or something. Other drivers I considered (after a long "filtering") were B&C 15NDL76 and RCF MB15H401. But these Fanes came to me on a platter and I immediately felt their pull. Model is now dicontinued from shelf-models and I got a good deal for the rest 8pcs that I found from Blue Aran.
Next step is to figure how to filter these. I still prefer single amp passive systems, and will be trying that route first
Some project pictures:
Let me introduce to you my latest project, sealed line array subs/music basses. I have had U-frame line arrays with 18" BMS woofers before, so this is quite like back to the roots -project for me. Couple of days ago got them up an runnin'.
Had the enclosures made by professionals and did the rest myself. Was a good choice, the outcome is quite like commecial quality inside and out.
Material is 25mm MDF with some braces. The front baffle also has 11mm OSB panel laminated behind it. Outer dimension are 115x65x40cm, gross volume is ~225 litres. The woofers in each module rest in shared air space to even out the variances when connected in series.
The woofers Fane FC-153F01: FC-153F01
Terminals Viablue R-150: VIABLUE™ R-150 Bi-Wire speaker terminal silver incl. T6s binding posts
Inside cabling Viablue SC-1 tin plated: VIABLUE™ SC-1 Silver speaker cable
Regarding the driver choice the goals were to get very snappy and tactile bass reproduction that does not skip a beat nor miss a tone of the double bass
. So high motoric force to Mms ratio. Good behaving cone so the modules are not "couple octave wonders" and can be xo'ed with 1-2 order filters excellently (or even in a 2-way system). High Qms/low Rms suspension was also "would be nice" feature and too much friction can make the sound somehow "damped" and not as dynamic subjectively (also if one dampens the box too much as it also lowers the Qms). Maybe these mechanical parametres are not linear in low spl levels or something. Other drivers I considered (after a long "filtering") were B&C 15NDL76 and RCF MB15H401. But these Fanes came to me on a platter and I immediately felt their pull. Model is now dicontinued from shelf-models and I got a good deal for the rest 8pcs that I found from Blue Aran.Next step is to figure how to filter these. I still prefer single amp passive systems, and will be trying that route first
Some project pictures:
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Yes still the same amps and pre, will not part with them
In addition I have made two other tube amps, one SE-UL with the same Noguchi trans as in the other SE amp and Miflex KPAL as coupling caps and fully polyprop capped PSU. SRSE (SRPP but does not act as PP in given load) driver stage, fixed bias (can use el34/kt88/6l6). Option to use cathode feedback. Very linear for an SE amp. The other amp is PP-UL that has identical schematic and component choices (Miflex KPCU anstead of KPAL) but is - naturally - symmetrical. The PP can be direct driven with balanced signal, or with SE signal/rca when Lundahl LL1690 input trans acts as an inverting stage. Very simple 2-stage amps both, very good sound.
I used Willsenton R8 as a "base" for the PP and "Rivals AK-88" as the base for the SE.
PP is still work in progress. It needs some fine tuning, also need some good sounding feedback to be able to reduce output impedance, and some nice output transformers
.
PP inside shot (when it still did not have Lundahl input trans' in it):
Some random Steps measurement of the SE-UL (gives nearly all of its power below 1% with or without CFB while sounding great):
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Oh my god! You don't ever do small systems, do you?
I still have the Usher D2/D3 so small subs were not an option. They seem overkill for the hORNS Mummies at least visually, but thats just an illusion
. I thought that back to basics route is the way to go, no exotic horns etc. this time but instead they will use room's boudaries and corners as a "horn/baffle" and couple effectively to the room this way. Sealed subs sound quite "small" and unimpressive if they are kept small (at least compared to front horns/TH), but they have some good qualities to them elsewhere, coherent, easy to integrate etc. So scaling the Sd up with sealed system is the way to go. They no longer sound small and unimpressive given enough Sd and retain their other good qualities
. Sd is also cheap with smart driver choices.Here they have only 3,9mH coil as a low pass as a tongue on the cheek -test, but they already integrate "quite good" (if one expects something horrible). They need some level matching, this humor setting is quite bass-headed.
(Good headphones might be the best for listening)Link: YouTube
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Bass quality, kick, clarity, sensitivity etc. is quite excellent, would be interesting if I could hear these in the same room where I used the synergy horns. They might be on par (or even better) with such straight front horns I had. But the bandwidth of these is a huge plus, makes life easy when one radiator can handle 10-600hz, the kick is so coherent. I measured that the the first null appears to be around 700-800hz region when i measure them in multiple points moving the mic up/down in ~20cm steps (quite high that 800hz null, didn't expect that). Would propably work also in a 2-way xo'ed at 600hz as such without tapering the bottom/top driver.
The Fanes just clicked for me, maybe they had the most of those qualities i was seeking. High qms/low rms, pretty good motoric force/mms ratio and they simmed good (qtc around 0,5 or "optimum damped" in this box) and I like Fane/PD cones they use, usually uk-manufactured air-dried non-treated paper cone that behaves good and sounds good raw/without xo. These also had "hi-fi" motor which made them more tempting. Good size spider, which is heavily ventilated etc... I already had Sovereign Pro 12-500's in the Mummys (replaced original Beyma 12br70 with fanes) and I liked them so much that it made me look at Fane in a new perspective. I hadn't payed attention to Fane before that much, I'm glad that I did.
I also looked at the b&c 15nw76 you mentioned besides 15ndl76, both could be great drivers! Very strong motors in both. Rcf mb15h401 might also be excellent. These all were on my top-list for this application and the sound I aimed at (god-tier kick bass, good reactivity at low spl, tactile feel in every bass note, good tonality). B&c's actually have higher (bl^2/re)/mms ratio than my Fane (B&C 15fw76: 1,18 / B&C 15ndl76: 0,994 / Fane FC-153F01: 0,796), I would not think that the ~100g Mms is too high.
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