Ultrasonic cleaning uses much lower power density than ultrasonic welding.
Ultrasonic cleaning for records uses a few hundred watts dispersed across a kilogram or more cleaning fluid and the LPs in the fluid bath.
Ultrasonic welding concentrates typically thousands of watts at a single point - the weld joint. So, unless your touching an ultrasonic welding probe directly to your LP, ultrasonic cleaning is not dangerous. -Cheers, B B
Ultrasonic cleaning for records uses a few hundred watts dispersed across a kilogram or more cleaning fluid and the LPs in the fluid bath.
Ultrasonic welding concentrates typically thousands of watts at a single point - the weld joint. So, unless your touching an ultrasonic welding probe directly to your LP, ultrasonic cleaning is not dangerous. -Cheers, B B
Ultrasonic cleaning works by cavitation, causing bubbles to be created, and those bubbles explode and bring out the dirt.
That can spoil the information in the grooves, and cleaning fluid can also cause damage to the grooves.
I think that is a clearer explanation for my advice...
That can spoil the information in the grooves, and cleaning fluid can also cause damage to the grooves.
I think that is a clearer explanation for my advice...
NareshBrd, The energy dissipation of ultrasonic cavitation cleaning is to be done at a frequency and power level that does not harm the substrate, whether it be plastic, glass, metal, fragile electronics, etc. There are vast amounts of work on this topic and ultrasonic cleaning is widely used across many industries. There is little to no danger if done properly. Please don't misinform readers. Awad gives a good overview here of how cavitation is safely used to clean surfaces:
Ultrasonic Cavitation and Precision Cleaning
Best regards,
B B
Ultrasonic Cavitation and Precision Cleaning
Best regards,
B B
Relatives had a jewelry factory, Branson cleaning machines. Used to clean wax and shellac from investment castings and so on.
The OP has old records, fragile, possibly worn out.
He suspects Brylcreem and other stuff in the grooves.
Not advisable in this case.
And adding anything to the fluid requires experience or guidance, not for the inexperienced, you will agree I think.
The other problem here is that the dirt is in fairly steep sided grooves, and has been there for many years, so adhesion may have occurred. Like cleaning the sides and bottom of a canyon...
In a factory, the item to be cleaned is not so old, a few weeks max.
Also, Vinyl in particular is compounded from rigid PVC by the use of various additives to make it more flexible and suitable for record production.
Those do migrate, and chemical changes can also happen, to the point of disintegration.
Commercial LP production stopped over 30 years back, CD gradually took over, more or less according to country.
In short, you have old plastic to clean, it is fragile, and chemically not the same as new.
Caution is advised.
The OP has old records, fragile, possibly worn out.
He suspects Brylcreem and other stuff in the grooves.
Not advisable in this case.
And adding anything to the fluid requires experience or guidance, not for the inexperienced, you will agree I think.
The other problem here is that the dirt is in fairly steep sided grooves, and has been there for many years, so adhesion may have occurred. Like cleaning the sides and bottom of a canyon...
In a factory, the item to be cleaned is not so old, a few weeks max.
Also, Vinyl in particular is compounded from rigid PVC by the use of various additives to make it more flexible and suitable for record production.
Those do migrate, and chemical changes can also happen, to the point of disintegration.
Commercial LP production stopped over 30 years back, CD gradually took over, more or less according to country.
In short, you have old plastic to clean, it is fragile, and chemically not the same as new.
Caution is advised.
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I just started using this with some surprisingly good results...
Squeaky Clean Vinyl MK-III RCM 3D Printed Record Cleaner (Classic Blac
It's an inexpensive vacuum system designed to work with a shop-vac.
Squeaky Clean Vinyl MK-III RCM 3D Printed Record Cleaner (Classic Blac
It's an inexpensive vacuum system designed to work with a shop-vac.
@Naresh
Wouldn't argue about adhesion. My suspicion is that the stylus basically embeds the dirt into the plastic. A bit like a stone pushed into the sand at a beach. Finer dirt then builds up around the edges smoothing them and lessening the effect of the obstruction.
Then, when cleaned, the stone remains, but without the surrounding dirt buffer and the click becomes more audible.
I see this a lot in older vinyl where the clicks cannot be cleaned away. But almost always, I hear overall improvements after ultrasonic cleaning. Particularly with tracking sibilants, but also high hat, cymbals are all better defined.
I've yet to hear anything that UC made worse. I've cleaned around 500 LPs so far and UC cleaning is clearly better than anything I've tried to date: glue, washing, vacuum cleaning, enzyme and soaking then vacuuming.
Wouldn't argue about adhesion. My suspicion is that the stylus basically embeds the dirt into the plastic. A bit like a stone pushed into the sand at a beach. Finer dirt then builds up around the edges smoothing them and lessening the effect of the obstruction.
Then, when cleaned, the stone remains, but without the surrounding dirt buffer and the click becomes more audible.
I see this a lot in older vinyl where the clicks cannot be cleaned away. But almost always, I hear overall improvements after ultrasonic cleaning. Particularly with tracking sibilants, but also high hat, cymbals are all better defined.
I've yet to hear anything that UC made worse. I've cleaned around 500 LPs so far and UC cleaning is clearly better than anything I've tried to date: glue, washing, vacuum cleaning, enzyme and soaking then vacuuming.
Please try soaking then UC an already UC cleaned and played record...I would be curious if any further loosening of the figurative stones occurs.
How do check for and clean stylus build up?
Do that on a record you have a duplicate of, I know the material is soft, so the tendency to embed dirt will be there.
Also. what do you use as cleaning fluid in the UC machine?
How do check for and clean stylus build up?
Do that on a record you have a duplicate of, I know the material is soft, so the tendency to embed dirt will be there.
Also. what do you use as cleaning fluid in the UC machine?
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Already tried it. Almost everything had already been cleaned with the Moth. Anything I buy S/H gets soak+Moth first, a play, then UC. 20% IPA, de-ionised water, Ilfotol.
I use a jewellers loupe to examine the stylus. Not particularly strong, but then stylus cruft isn't that hard to spot, it's not like looking for wear. Clean using a dense brush + water or that goop you drop the stylus into. Been experimenting with magic sponge.
IMO soak+Moth gives a good surface clean, little residue on stylus after playing + small improvements to SQ. UC can make a huge difference to SQ and noise but the stylus residue is interesting. Some LPs need several UCs before stuff stops appearing on stylus after playing. I clean, play side 1, spot cruft, repeat until stylus clean. Then play side 2 and get clean stylus. So my assumption was that UC was removing layers.
My vinyl is old but has always been stored properly & treated with respect so those 'layers' were almost certainly there when it came from the shop.
Cleaning won't make up for poor pressing or mastering and I've a fair number of LPs that're beyond hope, they were noisy or distorted when I bought them and cleaning does nothing at all. Island, Virgin, EMI Harvest being particularly rubbish. I've ended up buying remasters on CD for some of those. Wish You Were Here (I have three copies), all are shitty, and I took another three or four back to various stores over a period of 5 years trying to get something worth playing.
I use a jewellers loupe to examine the stylus. Not particularly strong, but then stylus cruft isn't that hard to spot, it's not like looking for wear. Clean using a dense brush + water or that goop you drop the stylus into. Been experimenting with magic sponge.
IMO soak+Moth gives a good surface clean, little residue on stylus after playing + small improvements to SQ. UC can make a huge difference to SQ and noise but the stylus residue is interesting. Some LPs need several UCs before stuff stops appearing on stylus after playing. I clean, play side 1, spot cruft, repeat until stylus clean. Then play side 2 and get clean stylus. So my assumption was that UC was removing layers.
My vinyl is old but has always been stored properly & treated with respect so those 'layers' were almost certainly there when it came from the shop.
Cleaning won't make up for poor pressing or mastering and I've a fair number of LPs that're beyond hope, they were noisy or distorted when I bought them and cleaning does nothing at all. Island, Virgin, EMI Harvest being particularly rubbish. I've ended up buying remasters on CD for some of those. Wish You Were Here (I have three copies), all are shitty, and I took another three or four back to various stores over a period of 5 years trying to get something worth playing.
cgallery,
I think your method makes good sense. Time along with gravity can do many amazing things.
I never liked the idea of the vacuum - how to keep the pads from redistributing what you loosed from the record back into the record? Even with fresh pads for every side you would still have this problem.
Plus many have pondered that the vacuuming does something unwanted to the record. I tend to go along with this.
I have an ultrasonic cleaner and it works OK but it takes up lots of room and you are still left with the drying of the record. I am ashamed to admit it never occurred to me to let the record rest on a glass. But one wonders if a water based method would work with this? Not as well I suspect. I used George Merrill's recommendation of baby diapers. I felt very silly at my age buying diapers.
If one has an extremely dirty record the ultrasonic cleaning followed by this might be very useful.
For most records I bet this method is a very good one. You can select some records you want to listen to and proceed with cleaning and listening. I like that.
No matter what method you use i bet there is still debris pushed away by the stylus - the idea of having that debris moved to the face of the record is the key here and this is cgallery's innovation
I have yet to give it a try but will this afternoon.
Curious if you ever moisten, not wet, your carbon brush before use?
I am cleaning my stylus after playing a side - not before I put on a record. This is probably something everyone does but it just occurred to me. Not saying I hear a difference but it would seem best to get that stuff while it is still heated.
I think your method makes good sense. Time along with gravity can do many amazing things.
I never liked the idea of the vacuum - how to keep the pads from redistributing what you loosed from the record back into the record? Even with fresh pads for every side you would still have this problem.
Plus many have pondered that the vacuuming does something unwanted to the record. I tend to go along with this.
I have an ultrasonic cleaner and it works OK but it takes up lots of room and you are still left with the drying of the record. I am ashamed to admit it never occurred to me to let the record rest on a glass. But one wonders if a water based method would work with this? Not as well I suspect. I used George Merrill's recommendation of baby diapers. I felt very silly at my age buying diapers.
If one has an extremely dirty record the ultrasonic cleaning followed by this might be very useful.
For most records I bet this method is a very good one. You can select some records you want to listen to and proceed with cleaning and listening. I like that.
No matter what method you use i bet there is still debris pushed away by the stylus - the idea of having that debris moved to the face of the record is the key here and this is cgallery's innovation
I have yet to give it a try but will this afternoon.
Curious if you ever moisten, not wet, your carbon brush before use?
I am cleaning my stylus after playing a side - not before I put on a record. This is probably something everyone does but it just occurred to me. Not saying I hear a difference but it would seem best to get that stuff while it is still heated.
I agree with that.
I have not been able to remove the crackles from newly purchased vinyl with any method!
Vinyl is recycled, I think the problem is there.
Not all LPs are pressed with pure and virgin vinyl, and the impurities are not loose, they are melted and lodged inside the PVC.
I can remember an EMI LP, a recording of Adrian Boult+LSO playing Vaughan Williams "Job, A Masque For Dancing".
From the start it had swoosh noises on one side. Took it back, got another (ordered in) and had the same result. Same noises in the same place. Took that back, got a third (ordered in) same result. Got a refund. To avoid any doubt, I used to mark the inside of the outer sleeve of returns with a pencil, just to be sure I wasn't being palmed off with the same LP a week later...
This was far from the only occasion.
A few of my LPs have 'sink' marks plainly visible, others have bulges or 'squiggles' from impurities or from plastic that wasn't fully soft when pressed.
Mold release was also a problem, both too little and too much.
I actually welcomed CD it was a blessed relief. But I've still got my vinyl 🙂
75 to 80 dB s/n may be possible from a new record.
The groove noise is 10db louder then my
preamp noise which sits around 82db.
The groove noise is 10db louder then my
preamp noise which sits around 82db.
Wow, Sir Adrian Boult! I have an LP of him playing Brahms, it's monophonic ! Yes, CDs were a breakthrough, their S/N ratio, dynamic range, and absence of surface noise displaced vinyl for years.
But vinyl resurfaced because, as you know, the concept spread that the analog sound is " natural ", and the bits are " cold " and " hard "... Something very debatable, I think those who maintain that have not reproduced CD's through a good DAC.
I have three playback systems currently in use, turntable, CD, and streamig.
A few days ago I heard Miles Davis on Spot..y, and that trumpet sounded incredible. However, I have a lot of vinyls and I keep listening to them, but I can't get away from the unforeseen noises (especially clicks) to fully enjoy an audition ...
Easy to fix, you have to exclusively listen to music without solo instruments or voices. 😀
I never can understand the obsession with the LP noise floor of normal pressings. A typical live concert experience includes coughing, sniffling, throat clearing, seats creaking etc. This even ignores noise from the stage, PA, air-con etc.
All of these are arguably more intrusive than background noise from a clean undamaged LP played through a well sorted cartridge, phono stage and speakers. Digital silence does not guarantee superior sound quality, as I found to my cost when trying to improve on CD with a then state-of-the-art DVD-A player.
All of these are arguably more intrusive than background noise from a clean undamaged LP played through a well sorted cartridge, phono stage and speakers. Digital silence does not guarantee superior sound quality, as I found to my cost when trying to improve on CD with a then state-of-the-art DVD-A player.
There are people (like me) who are bothered by going to the movies (saying this as if there is no Covid-19 in these times) and hearing popcorn noises, who ask their permission several times in a row to get to their seat because they arrive late to the function, coughing or blowing their snot repeatedly, etc.
I pay a price for a vinyl that is supposed to be like going to the movies with polite and respectful people.
I pay a price for a vinyl that is supposed to be like going to the movies with polite and respectful people.
