B&C looking like a top contender again
Freddi ,
That is a nice looking cabinet
Not sure how far up the useful response with a PA-310 will extend in that sort of cabinet, an akabak model would give us a rough idea ....
I found B&C's PDF file online for that 12PE32 and it looks to be practically IDEAL for your Front Loaded Horn midbass/midrange horn due to it's very strong motor, extremely high EBP and rising response .... It should be loud as heck, incredibly efficient, tight sounding and maybe a bit "dry" (i would predict) .... Out of all the 12s you listed The B&C would definitely have the best chance of producing useful response up high in that type of horn ...
Mr Inlow swears by the 12PE32 , you should take a look at the review he left on PE's website
Freddi ,
That is a nice looking cabinet
Not sure how far up the useful response with a PA-310 will extend in that sort of cabinet, an akabak model would give us a rough idea ....
I found B&C's PDF file online for that 12PE32 and it looks to be practically IDEAL for your Front Loaded Horn midbass/midrange horn due to it's very strong motor, extremely high EBP and rising response .... It should be loud as heck, incredibly efficient, tight sounding and maybe a bit "dry" (i would predict) .... Out of all the 12s you listed The B&C would definitely have the best chance of producing useful response up high in that type of horn ...
Mr Inlow swears by the 12PE32 , you should take a look at the review he left on PE's website
just one more segment
I agree !! With one more section in Hornresp we could get so much closer to modeling this type of cabinet ...
As it is right now we just fall short of being able to properly model the offset driver with the proper interchamber duct (to define where the rear chamber ends and front chamber begins) simultaneously ........ I have found ways to simulate those features independently but not at the same time in HR....
At least it is easy to model the equivalent simple aperture in HR , or "round aperture" as Schlager calls it (just not the classic K-slot) .....................BUT it doesn't matter since Hornresp was not really intended to properly estimate high frequencies anyhow so there is no point in trying to create a K-slot in HR, just shift the L45 all the way to the left in "Loudspeaker Wizard" (.1cm) to get an idea of what the response in the bass-range can be like with a K-aperture of some sort (slotted or round)
This is what i refer to as my "quick and dirty" HR method which is in fact very quick and very rough but serves it's purpose well... It is what i use to get an idea about what the bottom end contour will look like and how much total internal volume will be required for any particular driver, for more detail you have to build an intricate Akabak model, but this is a good place to start, just a preliminary test just to see if a driver will qualify (to figure out if it is something worth pursuing)..
The basic schematic ends up looking like this:
We need one more section-please.
Regards,
I agree !! With one more section in Hornresp we could get so much closer to modeling this type of cabinet ...
As it is right now we just fall short of being able to properly model the offset driver with the proper interchamber duct (to define where the rear chamber ends and front chamber begins) simultaneously ........ I have found ways to simulate those features independently but not at the same time in HR....
At least it is easy to model the equivalent simple aperture in HR , or "round aperture" as Schlager calls it
(just not the classic K-slot) .....................BUT it doesn't matter since Hornresp was not really intended to properly estimate high frequencies anyhow so there is no point in trying to create a K-slot in HR, just shift the L45 all the way to the left in "Loudspeaker Wizard" (.1cm) to get an idea of what the response in the bass-range can be like with a K-aperture of some sort (slotted or round)This is what i refer to as my "quick and dirty" HR method which is in fact very quick and very rough but serves it's purpose well... It is what i use to get an idea about what the bottom end contour will look like and how much total internal volume will be required for any particular driver, for more detail you have to build an intricate Akabak model, but this is a good place to start, just a preliminary test just to see if a driver will qualify (to figure out if it is something worth pursuing)..
The basic schematic ends up looking like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Acoustic sleuthing
Sebastian,
Fascinating! , this just about narrows it down to the driver now ...
Without the front panel (and therefore without the front chamber or aperture) there should definitely be an audible difference if your ears weren't already having to contend with that nasty ill-mannered midrange colouration ...
I had an idea
about the driver break-in on your 15LB100 and i sent you and email about it
Sebastian,
Fascinating! , this just about narrows it down to the driver now ...
Without the front panel (and therefore without the front chamber or aperture) there should definitely be an audible difference if your ears weren't already having to contend with that nasty ill-mannered midrange colouration ...
I had an idea
about the driver break-in on your 15LB100 and i sent you and email about it
Hi freddi,
The way that Hornresp is structured, the addition of a fifth segment would require a complete re-write of the program. This is not something that I am in a position to do.
For a conventional front-loaded horn system it is possible to use the throat adaptor feature to include an extra cylindrical or conical segment at the throat as shown in the attachment, but that is all.
Kind regards,
David
Attachments
♪♫♫ The Boys are back in town ♪♫♫
View attachment 517559
Me and a crew of head bangers are gonna have a hell of a night in company with these guys
See ya on the other side..
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Enjoy the show Sebastian
Great deal on a compression driver
Freddi ,
PE has a good deal on a compression driver that should work well in a 1" i.d. TPC style K-tube!
This looks exactly like an Eminence PSD2002 (same specs as well)
EC-26 1" Titanium Compression Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"- 18 TPI
Only a few more hours to order this item before the sale ends
Freddi ,
PE has a good deal on a compression driver that should work well in a 1" i.d. TPC style K-tube!
This looks exactly like an Eminence PSD2002 (same specs as well)
EC-26 1" Titanium Compression Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"- 18 TPI
Only a few more hours to order this item before the sale ends
Hi Y'all,
Finally got time to take a look @ the GRS PZ1188s that I got from PE. Sadly, the first one I opened up had a broken (now re-glued) internal screw post, and dings in the cone. Not the kind of thing you like to see to spend time testing with. Also, while the description states correctly: "Standard 1-3/8" 18-TPI threads facilitate use with 1" horns", it is obviously my mistake to assume that this would mean the driver has a 1" throat. The throat is app. 7/8" (.875) which makes it a bad fit for 1" throat horns, waveguides or K-tubes. Oh well, at least they area cheap; another description may use the acronym for: casually researched acoustic parts.
I cut around a bit on the throat of the above mentioned driver, and I'll compare what I get to an original unit. All that being what it is I hope to find some time to play w/ the junk tomorrow. I don't expect any great insights. (I never do.)
Regards,
P.S.: File upload of pictures failed again. It's just not my day. Moving right along....
Finally got time to take a look @ the GRS PZ1188s that I got from PE. Sadly, the first one I opened up had a broken (now re-glued) internal screw post, and dings in the cone. Not the kind of thing you like to see to spend time testing with. Also, while the description states correctly: "Standard 1-3/8" 18-TPI threads facilitate use with 1" horns", it is obviously my mistake to assume that this would mean the driver has a 1" throat. The throat is app. 7/8" (.875) which makes it a bad fit for 1" throat horns, waveguides or K-tubes. Oh well, at least they area cheap; another description may use the acronym for: casually researched acoustic parts.
I cut around a bit on the throat of the above mentioned driver, and I'll compare what I get to an original unit. All that being what it is I hope to find some time to play w/ the junk tomorrow. I don't expect any great insights. (I never do.)
Regards,
P.S.: File upload of pictures failed again. It's just not my day. Moving right along....
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Freddi,
Those B52 compression drivers could possibly be made by Eminence, if i remember correctly didn't Eminence make some of the woofers that B52 uses? Just a thought ..
Hi Y'all,
Finally got time to take a look @ the GRS PZ1188s that I got from PE. Sadly, the first one I opened up had a broken (now re-glued) internal screw post, and dings in the cone. Not the kind of thing you like to see to spend time testing with. Also, while the description states correctly: "Standard 1-3/8" 18-TPI threads facilitate use with 1" horns", it is obviously my mistake to assume that this would mean the driver has a 1" throat. The throat is app. 7/8" (.875) which makes it a bad fit for 1" throat horns, waveguides or K-tubes. Oh well, at least they area cheap; another description may use the acronym for: casually researched acoustic parts.
I cut around a bit on the throat of the above mentioned driver, and I'll compare what I get to an original unit. All that being what it is I hope to find some time to play w/ the junk tomorrow. I don't expect any great insights. (I never do.)
Regards,
P.S.: File upload of pictures failed again. It's just not my day. Moving right along....
TB46,
Sorry to hear about the shoddy build quality on the PZ1188s, i hope the cheeseball components perform better than they look ....
About the file upload function on this website: Instead of using the DIYaudio file service you could just use one of the free imagehosting websites out there and just paste the link you are given using the "insert image" button .... That is what i have been doing lately .. .
Driver updates
I think i may add the JBL 2206H/J driver to the list of excellent drivers for use in the Karlflex12 ...
Someone pointed out to me that the 2206's parameters are similar to that of the Definimax12 which makes it a nearly ideal driver for this design ..https://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf..
As it turns out the JBL 2206H/J can be found on Ebay (used) for a very reasonable price! (much less than you would pay for a new Definimax)....
I am still waiting to hear back from Sebastian regarding the verdict on that 15LB100 , if the severe coloration is in fact being produced by the driver itself then i will have to take it off of the driver list for the wideband Karlflex, or just designate it as "bass only" duty ..
I think i may add the JBL 2206H/J driver to the list of excellent drivers for use in the Karlflex12 ...
Someone pointed out to me that the 2206's parameters are similar to that of the Definimax12 which makes it a nearly ideal driver for this design
..https://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf.. As it turns out the JBL 2206H/J can be found on Ebay (used) for a very reasonable price! (much less than you would pay for a new Definimax)....
I am still waiting to hear back from Sebastian regarding the verdict on that 15LB100 , if the severe coloration is in fact being produced by the driver itself then i will have to take it off of the driver list for the wideband Karlflex, or just designate it as "bass only" duty ..
Sebastian,
Ok, good to know that the 15LB100 isn't entirely the problem
(could even sound good once the box is fully figured out) .... I am working on a couple of ideas for you .... Be sure to let us know what happens with your S1/stuffing experiment ..
That seems to be an issue for some folks as of late .... You can always fall back to using an external image hosting site ..
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I took out half the stuffing in S1 and it did not do any good to the sound. I think it got worse.... so maybe go the other way and stuff it harder and take the penalty of decreased low end, to see where that brings me.
I've also started massaging the new drivers with 20 hz sinus tone to speed up break in.
I've also started massaging the new drivers with 20 hz sinus tone to speed up break in.