Your 10x figure is way off. We're in audio, not coffee or apparel. Over the entire span from low end to ultra-exclusive, retail price is a fairly constant 5x up from materials cost (bill of material). That is not counting labour or the profit you need to cover the cost of actually designing the product.
I'll leave the other percentage figures undiscussed.
I'll leave the other percentage figures undiscussed.
Yes, it ranges from 10 to 20% depending on the model, the % can even reach higher in some rare cases.
However, that hardly changes the point of a clone. Whether the original costs 10 or 20% of the retail price or even more matters little: you will still pay 100% of the retail price vs 20% of the retail price for a clone.
True, many things are to blame and most of them are, as you point out, a matter of live with it or you simply cant be part of the club. But, as i mention too, manufacturers and/or distributors IMPOSE on their dealers a MASSIVE margin, whether they want it or not:
- maintaining artificially high prices in store
- preventing cheaper (DIY ?) competition from being a threat because retailers will choose not to sell the cheaper goods even if they are better
- maintaing a fabricated image of high price => high quality, for cheap car audio components.
The price in store is not high because of high cost components or high R&D costs but because of all the middlemen and taxes.
However, that hardly changes the point of a clone. Whether the original costs 10 or 20% of the retail price or even more matters little: you will still pay 100% of the retail price vs 20% of the retail price for a clone.
True, many things are to blame and most of them are, as you point out, a matter of live with it or you simply cant be part of the club. But, as i mention too, manufacturers and/or distributors IMPOSE on their dealers a MASSIVE margin, whether they want it or not:
- maintaining artificially high prices in store
- preventing cheaper (DIY ?) competition from being a threat because retailers will choose not to sell the cheaper goods even if they are better
- maintaing a fabricated image of high price => high quality, for cheap car audio components.
The price in store is not high because of high cost components or high R&D costs but because of all the middlemen and taxes.
People DIY because they want to find stuff out or discover new stuff, because they want the priceless satisfaction of enjoying music on something they poured their heart and elbow grease into, occasionally because the thing they want isn't available commercially, but NEVER to save money. Seriously. Ever worked out how much time has gone into those DIY designs that can hold their ground against commercial propositions? I suggest you translate that time into money, even charitably assuming minimum wage.
That's the labour. Now parts. In the end you may have constructed a speaker with $200 in parts that can beat a $2k speaker, and you'll find that you have accumulated 10 speakers' worth of parts in the process. Well, if you haven't also had 10 speakers' worth of fun, that's a bad return. You seriously don't want to see the line-up of different tweeters, woofers (some custom made) and mangled cabinets that are gathering dust in my garage and those are just the relics of designing the LS1.
If you're not doing it for the sheer heck of DIY, you might get seriously disappointed along the way. If apart from the fun of DIY you want to come out on top economically, you'll have to commercialize the result. Saving bucks just ain't gonna do it.
That's the labour. Now parts. In the end you may have constructed a speaker with $200 in parts that can beat a $2k speaker, and you'll find that you have accumulated 10 speakers' worth of parts in the process. Well, if you haven't also had 10 speakers' worth of fun, that's a bad return. You seriously don't want to see the line-up of different tweeters, woofers (some custom made) and mangled cabinets that are gathering dust in my garage and those are just the relics of designing the LS1.
If you're not doing it for the sheer heck of DIY, you might get seriously disappointed along the way. If apart from the fun of DIY you want to come out on top economically, you'll have to commercialize the result. Saving bucks just ain't gonna do it.
Thanks for telling me why i am not getting into DIY.
I must be THE only exception in the world. Seriously.
I am going to make a pair of PMC IB1S-likes, and i will not spend 7000€ in the process, i wont even spend 2000€ in the process.
I will spend 25$ on each tweeter and 100$ on each mid and about 125$ on each bass woofer. If i dont like one of those drivers then they will end up in a bloody good home cinema pair of mains.
I am doing it because i dont want to spend 3500€ on a pair of used speakers i can make for a lot less. True, i leave with a head start: i know what the exact tweeters & mids are, i know how the box is made, i know its size, i know roughly what crossover frequencies to use. The only big unknown in the equation is the bass driver: i cannot find the same exact model, so im getting a look-alike with similar specs. If it turns out to be naf i'll upgrade to a Volt from the MB2 or something in between and even then i wont spend 2000€.
I also have 45 days to return drivers.
I also already know what tweeters & mids were used in the LS1, should i decide to have a head start making those. So im not starting from scratch.
I am getting into DIY speakers to save money, as i did with DIY bass traps & absorbers, and boy did i save thousands there. I am also building a house to save money. And a record studio.
What an exception i must be. I wonder how many people cannot afford the LS1 but would like a pair...and can afford those 60$ tweeters & 270$ woofers...and might be tempted to use them in a 2 way speaker. Sure, the LS1 will probably sound better. And look better. And impress the studio client through their price etc. But for 12000€ vs 1200€...i think some might like the saving, even if they are not buying exactly the same product.
I get the rules and i get the commercial system. I own a business and run another. I understand your position and know my knowledge & competence is non existent next to yours or that of PMC or JBL etc.
I also know there is no way on earth you can possibly adopt any other discourse. I worked in hardcore customer care for a sh*t company for years, so i know how to play the lawyer.
You cannot agree with me because you would be shooting yourself in the foot. Fair enough, i understand that.
Maybe one day i'll invite you over for a blind test.
;-)
Btw, your Hypex designs seem great and i hope to get myself some kits soon.
Best regards,
Rick Dangerous
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@John. Shh, don't discourage the bloke now he's getting into his stride.
@Rick. Good luck. Seriously.
@Rick. Good luck. Seriously.
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