Sadly, not EU anymore, but...
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...t-register-firdac.379406/page-27#post-7352074
DSD only version.
I have the smd populated PCB and many of the through hole components (unassembled).
Hi Ray and Marcel,
Many thanks for all your efforts!
I am new to this creation but happy to buy a fully assembled unit and then ship it on to someone more familiar like ‘Mark4’ (if interested)to do a comparison test with something quite similar:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...r-clock-group-buy.291925/page-77#post-7293211
Please quote
OK, sorry about the time earlier Acko.
Things have moved on as the last set of RTZ PCBs have been sold, however, having discussed with Marcel, he's happy for me to send Markw4 his prototype build. I was planning to return the prototype to Marcel this weekend.
The prototype works perfectly and sounds excellent but is different to the final project PCBs in only having the Amanero pattern header interface (no ufl connectors) and has some modifcations that were subsequently rolled into the final design that we've been building recently. The prototype is just the RTZ DAC and Filter boards, no DSD 'source' (Amanero, JLSounds, etc) or power supplies (requires 5V and +/-15V) so some investment will be needed to get it up and running.
Ray
Things have moved on as the last set of RTZ PCBs have been sold, however, having discussed with Marcel, he's happy for me to send Markw4 his prototype build. I was planning to return the prototype to Marcel this weekend.
The prototype works perfectly and sounds excellent but is different to the final project PCBs in only having the Amanero pattern header interface (no ufl connectors) and has some modifcations that were subsequently rolled into the final design that we've been building recently. The prototype is just the RTZ DAC and Filter boards, no DSD 'source' (Amanero, JLSounds, etc) or power supplies (requires 5V and +/-15V) so some investment will be needed to get it up and running.
Ray
I don't know if I will be able to find those. The schematics are somewhere in between those attached to post #20 and the final schematics (see post #241). Wherever you see through-hole components mounted in unusual manners, it's a modification that makes the circuit more similar to the final schematics.
There is one thing I should say before we go too far, which is that I can give a summary of the opinions of the listeners here about Marcel's dac, and share that in the forum, or else do so privately. That would be kind of like a review of the dac.
However, as to whether or not a direct A/B comparison of Marcel's dac were to be made with Andrea's dac, for that I would like to have an okay from both designers before going forward, at least if it were to be with the idea that the results would be shared publicly. Its because in that case it could potentially interpreted by readers as more of a shootout type of competition where there could be on balance what might look like a winner/loser outcome. I wouldn't want to put either designer in that position without their mutual consent to participate on such a basis.
OTOH, if Acko and or the designers only want a private summary of opinion as to the pros and cons, that would be another matter.
I'm open to other suggestions, but want to tread carefully here. I respect both designer's work and don't want to unilaterally put either one into a disagreeable situation.
However, as to whether or not a direct A/B comparison of Marcel's dac were to be made with Andrea's dac, for that I would like to have an okay from both designers before going forward, at least if it were to be with the idea that the results would be shared publicly. Its because in that case it could potentially interpreted by readers as more of a shootout type of competition where there could be on balance what might look like a winner/loser outcome. I wouldn't want to put either designer in that position without their mutual consent to participate on such a basis.
OTOH, if Acko and or the designers only want a private summary of opinion as to the pros and cons, that would be another matter.
I'm open to other suggestions, but want to tread carefully here. I respect both designer's work and don't want to unilaterally put either one into a disagreeable situation.
Fair enough if designers want to consent to this type of comparison. Personally for me, it is like whether a discrete dac is better than chip based one moving forward. Then whether just be happy getting something like Holo or looking at Marcel’s or Andrea’s creation. Ray has come a long way with dsd dac builds and comparisons: no-dac, DSC, ppyDSC and now Marcel’s RTZ FIRDAC tops the list. So, I was thinking it would benefit all if we take things a bit further …
You and everyone else have my okay to review it or to compare it to any DAC you like by whatever means you like and share the results on this forum.
I would appreciate a clear description of the methods, music or other signals and equipment used for the test. I hope everyone will then make up their own mind about to what extent they trust or distrust the results, without starting the umpteenth non-converging discussion about sighted versus blind listening tests.
That I can speak to already, and to some extent I have. However, Marcel's dac would be another data point.
In regard to what you would like to know, I'm afraid there is not going to be a simple answer at least not from me. At this point, the opinions are going to start: Its because in most cases specifics of implementation have more effect on final SQ and on cost than anything else (and in particular more effect than the basic choice of IC or discrete conversion tech). That's true until one gets up into the class of dac starting maybe at around $5k or so. Above maybe around $10k, and then up from there, few designs in that tier rely on dac chips for data conversion. That isn't to say dac chips couldn't be made for someone with a military level budget which might far outperform what is made today for consumer mass markets (that is, 'outperform' in terms of perceived SQ). Its just to say that the economics of IC manufacturing tends to require focusing products on the needs of high volume markets.
Also, up in the high end audio market even conscientious manufacturers need the retail markup on their products to be around six times. In the consumer market, retail markups are usually around 3-5 times incremental manufacturing cost for one unit. With that in mind if we were to take one of Andrea's dacs, buy all the boards he makes to help assemble a dac, plus add some of our own power supplies, a USB interface, maybe our own output stage, a case to put it all in, etc., and then multiply the cost of parts alone by six, we would be probably be talking about a dac in the $10k+ price class. If the work is done right, and most people don't know how to do it all 'right' enough, then the dac may perform competitively with commercial dacs in that price class. However it may still turn out that in most cases nobody will ever hear the full SQ such a dac can offer unless the rest of the reproduction system is up to par (and there are different opinions on exactly what that might entail).
Okay. By now it should probably be getting pretty clear where I am going with this. Unless you would like to refine your interest more narrowly, we may be stuck speaking in rather general terms.
Last edited: