I'll try some pipe wrap fiberglass or bonded Dacron at the very top ~5" of the 8" coupler on the left tonight and check its effect on male and female voice plus music in general. -- also have a 1772 in a rough diy k8 with hacked horizontal slot port in place of the slit vent. The new 2/3 K15 seems to have a dark character but difficult to tell with modpodged AN8 and Beta10cx both which lean that way.
- got respect for K's K12 -
- got respect for K's K12 -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I am making a KaZba out of 3/4in ply (I know, blasphemy) for dual Tang Band W5-876SE's. This will be a base unit on the bottom of a mini TG9FD and dome tweeter that will be sort of like an LX521, but tiny.
The OB near field monitor is discussed here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/280968-ob-compact-3way-nearfield-monitor-11.html#post4487033
The OB near field monitor is discussed here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/280968-ob-compact-3way-nearfield-monitor-11.html#post4487033
They all sound great together as all dipole. Flipping the little Kazba on its side lets me get the mid and tweeter closer to the acoustic centers and sounds very nice that way. The bass is 91dB sensitive at 8ohms. Quite good and just right for near field. Runs out of steam if pressed for louder SPL though as 5mm xmax comes up quickly when trying to make 50Hz. Very snappy transients and I can make the KaZba and mid quasi transient perfect. When my new ND25FA tweeters come in I will put it all together.
XRK, this project looks very good to me. As you know I'm a big fan of open baffle on top of bass support. Sorry if I missed it but what's you approximate crossover from the full range driver to the bass, 300Hz to 500Hz?
I may add a dome tweeter to the Vifa PC9 to add a bit more treble action.
Last night I was totally enjoying the Daytn PS95 on top of H-frames for about two glorious hours.
I may add a dome tweeter to the Vifa PC9 to add a bit more treble action.
Last night I was totally enjoying the Daytn PS95 on top of H-frames for about two glorious hours.
XO is about acoustically 280Hz (300Hz electrical 1st order on TG9FD and 4th order on woofer). A good trick for having a compact OB is to make a trapezoid with folded asymmetric wings. My baffle is 9.5in wide at bottom 5.5in at top and about 10in tall. Wings go back 4in on one side and 3in on other side. TG9FD can go down to solid 175Hz this way and diffraction is minimized with trapezoidal shape.
I can definitely hear the difference between the TG9FD running full range vs 4kHz LPF and having dedicated tweeter.
Here is the XO:
I flipped the Kazba upside down with aperture going up and this seems to make the sound more integrated as expected. The speaker is a nice size for a stand mount monitor. Bass at close range is quite impactful. There is something about the immediacy of open baffle bass that just sounds better than a sealed box. I really like sealed bass with LT but this is better up close. It seems to excite the rest of the room a lot less so good for neighbors at night. I am able to play at 87dB at 1.2m listening position quite well with headroom for peaks. If I had two of would be 90dB and more than enough for monitoring mixes. A surprise out of all this is how compact and flexible the 2-way top OB with wings turned out to be. It can be placed on top of side of Kazba depending on orientation needed. It proved to me OB doesn't have to be big to sound good.
Measured dimensions are 9.5in wide base, 5.5in wide top, 9in high x 4in deep at base. Able to get 200Hz bass extension flat and up to 20kHz of course via tweeter. I predict that since it is about 7in wide on average the imaging will be very good and better than typical 18 to 30in wide baffles.
Measured dimensions are 9.5in wide base, 5.5in wide top, 9in high x 4in deep at base. Able to get 200Hz bass extension flat and up to 20kHz of course via tweeter. I predict that since it is about 7in wide on average the imaging will be very good and better than typical 18 to 30in wide baffles.
I really like what I'm hearing in these clips. The KaZba sounds eerily similar to my mastering rig which uses upgraded Acarian Alon 3 ways (open baffle mid and OB tweet + sealed woofer). Except the bass of the KaZba, (which is a bit thin), sounds more detailed than the Alon's sealed box (graciously over-sized and measures flat to 30Hz in this room).
I think this might be a worthwhile upgrade path...
I've listened to the clips on modified Etymotic ER4 and Alon's. Both suggest the same voicing that I'm already familiar with:
- Speed like an ESL but more accurate point source presentation (since there aren't neighboring cells comb filtering)
- Accurate timbre
- Engaging sound field, enhances the sense of performers being in room.
I like that this KaZba is small enough we can't see the second driver (easily anyway). The early photo's of the box with big magnet and counter-intuitive mounting style put me off, but the sound is good enough I should pay close attention.
Seems unfortunate that I need more SPL for mixing (between 89 and 94dB at listening position +headroom). I work semi-near field (so C-T-C spacing on the drivers is good to keep to a minimum).
I think this might be a worthwhile upgrade path...
I've listened to the clips on modified Etymotic ER4 and Alon's. Both suggest the same voicing that I'm already familiar with:
- Speed like an ESL but more accurate point source presentation (since there aren't neighboring cells comb filtering)
- Accurate timbre
- Engaging sound field, enhances the sense of performers being in room.
I like that this KaZba is small enough we can't see the second driver (easily anyway). The early photo's of the box with big magnet and counter-intuitive mounting style put me off, but the sound is good enough I should pay close attention.
Seems unfortunate that I need more SPL for mixing (between 89 and 94dB at listening position +headroom). I work semi-near field (so C-T-C spacing on the drivers is good to keep to a minimum).
Anthony,
Thanks for the feedback. I am surprised how well this temporary cheap Mylar dome tweeter is working out. It's small enough that I could stick a second back to back and wired out of phase for dipole on the tweet too. Now I am wondering how the fabric dome ND25FA will compare once it is here.
Ok we know the TG9FD has mids that ooze smoothness as you can hear in the clips. To solve the SPL problem maybe have to go back to SLOB and go with a tower format to add drivers without adding footprint. Probably going back to qnty 6 x 6.5in woofers will do the trick with 89dB to 94dB requirement. That will mean an MTM is required to get mids up to same sensitivity of 90dB overall. To get same sensitivity with Kazba one can increase driver to 8in and use qnty 4 in a double stack Kazba tower.
That would actually be nice tower format as it would put tweeter at ear height without any stands required. Using 88dB woofers x 4 gives 94dB sensitivity at close range, falloff will put sensitivity around 90dB at 1.5m. Woofer fs needs to be in low 30's and Qts in the higher range of 0.6 to get the extension without EQ. Of course more xmax the better. Almost sounds like I need a guitar amp open back box speaker? Any suggestions?
Thanks for the feedback. I am surprised how well this temporary cheap Mylar dome tweeter is working out. It's small enough that I could stick a second back to back and wired out of phase for dipole on the tweet too. Now I am wondering how the fabric dome ND25FA will compare once it is here.
Ok we know the TG9FD has mids that ooze smoothness as you can hear in the clips. To solve the SPL problem maybe have to go back to SLOB and go with a tower format to add drivers without adding footprint. Probably going back to qnty 6 x 6.5in woofers will do the trick with 89dB to 94dB requirement. That will mean an MTM is required to get mids up to same sensitivity of 90dB overall. To get same sensitivity with Kazba one can increase driver to 8in and use qnty 4 in a double stack Kazba tower.
That would actually be nice tower format as it would put tweeter at ear height without any stands required. Using 88dB woofers x 4 gives 94dB sensitivity at close range, falloff will put sensitivity around 90dB at 1.5m. Woofer fs needs to be in low 30's and Qts in the higher range of 0.6 to get the extension without EQ. Of course more xmax the better. Almost sounds like I need a guitar amp open back box speaker? Any suggestions?
Hi guys
I just found this thread today (DOH!) and have been reading through it with interest. I love the idea. But then I read this:
This gave me an idea. How about extending the slot so it runs over the top, all the way to the back. Here are some sketches of my idea:
The original KaZba:
And with the modification:
Could this be a solution?
Next, how about a KaMba, which would be the same thing, but instead of a Z-baffle, an M-baffle? Anybody willing to try?
Thanks and regards,
Deon
I just found this thread today (DOH!) and have been reading through it with interest. I love the idea. But then I read this:
This gave me an idea. How about extending the slot so it runs over the top, all the way to the back. Here are some sketches of my idea:
The original KaZba:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And with the modification:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Could this be a solution?
Next, how about a KaMba, which would be the same thing, but instead of a Z-baffle, an M-baffle? Anybody willing to try?
Thanks and regards,
Deon
Interesting idea but that would not get the mid/tweet closer to the woofer for integration. This would allow more bass to jet through the aperture at the narrow spot on top. The upper bass and low mids still go out the big aperture.
Why "but"?
There's nothing wrong to use it 'upside down', if it's used with other M-HF unit(s).
OTOH, using it 'normally' is alright, too.
It's all about system integration.
Or, is it the look being considered here?
Oh well, maybe it's me. Speakers I've built are all strange. LOL.
