@leadbelly , @Randy Bassinga - you are probably right: I did not consider that the unbalanced pedal output may not need hi-z input in the mixer. I assumed that I should treat any unbalanced pedal output like hi-impedance, similar to the raw output of passive single coil pickup.
But all pedals have active power and may be able to drive enough power into a regular mic input... Is that so? Could somebody confirm or deny that?
(There is no such thing as "neutral setting" on my fuzz but that is a minor concern since I'm going to use flamma anyways.)
Hi-Z input on the mixer would still be convenient but if the above is correct, it definitely moves it from "a must" into a "nice to have" category!
But all pedals have active power and may be able to drive enough power into a regular mic input... Is that so? Could somebody confirm or deny that?
(There is no such thing as "neutral setting" on my fuzz but that is a minor concern since I'm going to use flamma anyways.)
Hi-Z input on the mixer would still be convenient but if the above is correct, it definitely moves it from "a must" into a "nice to have" category!
It looks like @Randy Bassinga and @leadbelly are correct: I do not need hi-Z input if I use flamma fs06, see the screen shot!
just use a computer with Native Instruments Guitar Rig or IK multimedia Amplitube
just need a soundcard with in / out anything from M-Audio in your budget.
For tracking you use Steinberg Cubase
Why use anything else since they invented VST plugins
and every common features seen in others = Steinberg
no need for anything else
since a Cubase has a mixer with unlimited channels and features.
And will run endless effects and plugins.
Far as inputs then pick a soundcard with as many in and outs you like.
1) Soundcard
2) Software
all done.
just need a soundcard with in / out anything from M-Audio in your budget.
For tracking you use Steinberg Cubase
Why use anything else since they invented VST plugins
and every common features seen in others = Steinberg
no need for anything else
since a Cubase has a mixer with unlimited channels and features.
And will run endless effects and plugins.
Far as inputs then pick a soundcard with as many in and outs you like.
1) Soundcard
2) Software
all done.
Why use anything else? Because the OP stated that Linux was his only operating system. That leaves out most of the big named DAWs. Make sure that the audio interface that you get has Linux compatible drivers available.
The only Linux DAW that I have tinkered with was Ardour, and that was several years ago. It does work good but seems to be a version or two behind the big names in features.
For simple recording Audacity might be a good choice for starting out. The newer versions now support many DAW features. I have never tried the Linux version though.
For my minimalist studio I went in nearly the opposite direction that you are looking at. I have a old 4th Gen core i7 PC motherboard with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD, running Windows 10. It is connected to a Focusrite Solo interface which feeds a DIY HiFi vacuum tube amp and some thrift store Cerwin Vega speakers. I have Overloud's TH-U software for dozens of virtual guitar amp / speaker cabinet emulations. The Solo has a 1/4 inch jack on the front that will accept a guitar cord which has a 30 year old Squire Strat on the other end. The other channel can accept a microphone on the XLR jack, or an input from the old Samson Mixpad 9 mixer that I have. Recording is handled with the Mixcraft 9 DAW.
I am in the parts collection phase of making a portable guitar amp using similar technology. I have a tiny Lenovo Nano PC that has an 8th gen core i5 in it. The Nano PC will work on battery power as will the TPA3116 board I got.
The only Linux DAW that I have tinkered with was Ardour, and that was several years ago. It does work good but seems to be a version or two behind the big names in features.
For simple recording Audacity might be a good choice for starting out. The newer versions now support many DAW features. I have never tried the Linux version though.
For my minimalist studio I went in nearly the opposite direction that you are looking at. I have a old 4th Gen core i7 PC motherboard with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD, running Windows 10. It is connected to a Focusrite Solo interface which feeds a DIY HiFi vacuum tube amp and some thrift store Cerwin Vega speakers. I have Overloud's TH-U software for dozens of virtual guitar amp / speaker cabinet emulations. The Solo has a 1/4 inch jack on the front that will accept a guitar cord which has a 30 year old Squire Strat on the other end. The other channel can accept a microphone on the XLR jack, or an input from the old Samson Mixpad 9 mixer that I have. Recording is handled with the Mixcraft 9 DAW.
I am in the parts collection phase of making a portable guitar amp using similar technology. I have a tiny Lenovo Nano PC that has an 8th gen core i5 in it. The Nano PC will work on battery power as will the TPA3116 board I got.
About 4 or 5 years ago I wandered down the making music with Linux and other open source tools trail. I remembered a YouTube channel that was a big help but it took me some time to find it due to a name change. Some of the videos contain strong language, mostly music videos, and some of the really old music is in Polish:
https://www.youtube.com/@unfa00/videos
I remembered a virtual guitar amp sim for Linux but could not remember its name. Google told me that it is Guitarix. It also brought me to a list of other guitar goodies for Linux:
https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-linux-guitar-tools-the-guitarists-essential-toolkit/
https://www.youtube.com/@unfa00/videos
I remembered a virtual guitar amp sim for Linux but could not remember its name. Google told me that it is Guitarix. It also brought me to a list of other guitar goodies for Linux:
https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-linux-guitar-tools-the-guitarists-essential-toolkit/
Crocobar, I am a hands-on hardware with faders and knobs type of guy. I tried hardware recorders and multi trackers like the BOSS BR-800 and some cheaper mixers with SD or USB cards recording. Not a pleasant experience at all. I found it clunky and very limited
My recommendation for a DAW for Linux would be Reaper
https://www.reaper.fm/
This has an excellent following and a forum, and in my experience it is comfortable to use and easy to record with. I find the recording process easier then Audacity
But I am curious about your use environment and experience with these things. I hope you don't mind a bit of a questionnaire
Have you been getting any use of the gear that you already have?
What chain of equipment are you using to play the bass and electric guitar?
Do you have the ability to use both at the same time already?
What is your experience with recording so far?
What is your interest with recording, do you want to jam with family and friends and record the result or do you want to explore a production style which is composing or following a composition and then recording each instrument or mic on a separate track for further post-production?
Or, do you want a fairly comprehensive ability to do both?
I have recommended the Yamaha mixers before, and for a good reason. They don't specify a Hi-z input, but all the mic inputs have an instrument jack and can really bring guitars to life plugged straight in without the use of a pedal. And it has a very decent stereo analog or digital over USB recording out of the mixed channels. It can also be used to record two instruments at a time into two separate tracks of your DAW. I am sure that the mixer that you chose can do the recording part better, as it has more than a stereo out over USB and sounds like a good starting point
See the things is that this is a try and see type of thing too. You may find that trying to get it all in right at the beginning may end up actually limiting things in the future. One way to be comfortable is to just save up and throw some money at it and really get setup well. Here is an example of a very good but expensive heart of a system
https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/mixers/dm3/index.html
This is an interesting video to watch
It explains a lot about the whole setup process into getting a balanced mix. Something like the DM3 removes a lot of clutter, but the same type of results can be had with a multichannel interface, Reaper and a decent computer. The interface provides the hardware inputs and outputs and the mixer console is on the computer in the form of Reaper interface. This is a very standard way of doing things from either type of setup
But if you will be mostly just enjoying playing live and recording that as the result, then the using of the mouse and stuff will seriously get in the way of having fun. Here, a mixer with a serious mastering capability shines, and these are usually found in DJ type systems. There are two that are serious in my opinion. The Roland MX-1 that I recently acquired and the Roland DJ-707m. Please do take a moment and look these up. These are built for live use and the best way to jam with a karaoke playlist with mics and instruments. Since I picked the MX-1, I went with the DJ-202 instead just to add that playlist and karaoke live playing to the MX-1. Your Guitars would plug into individual input channels into either MX-1 or DJ-707m. These are expensive and the MX-1 can be hard to find. But they are great for family use. It opens up the messing with DJ gear for the kids and can be great fun at family gatherings
For us, we are seriously into the jamming together at home thing and doing that at fun parties and seriously sitting down to compose and remix accompaniment material beforehand. This started with a BR-800 and using that as the heart of a home recording. And finding that limited, moving up to a standard console into DAW setup, and again finding that limiting to live use. To now acquiring a serious DJ mixer set in form of the MX-1 and DJ-202. This has been quite an expensive investment for me, but the ease of access and use playing live in a home or party environment can't be matched with any other type of setups
This is why I keep prompting you to ponder your intended use. Traditional production ambitions, or would a DJ based production system? Which direction is more suitable for where you want to take this music thing for yourself and family?
Good to see that you are still at this, hope you have some fun along the way
Regards
Randy
My recommendation for a DAW for Linux would be Reaper
https://www.reaper.fm/
This has an excellent following and a forum, and in my experience it is comfortable to use and easy to record with. I find the recording process easier then Audacity
But I am curious about your use environment and experience with these things. I hope you don't mind a bit of a questionnaire
Have you been getting any use of the gear that you already have?
What chain of equipment are you using to play the bass and electric guitar?
Do you have the ability to use both at the same time already?
What is your experience with recording so far?
What is your interest with recording, do you want to jam with family and friends and record the result or do you want to explore a production style which is composing or following a composition and then recording each instrument or mic on a separate track for further post-production?
Or, do you want a fairly comprehensive ability to do both?
I have recommended the Yamaha mixers before, and for a good reason. They don't specify a Hi-z input, but all the mic inputs have an instrument jack and can really bring guitars to life plugged straight in without the use of a pedal. And it has a very decent stereo analog or digital over USB recording out of the mixed channels. It can also be used to record two instruments at a time into two separate tracks of your DAW. I am sure that the mixer that you chose can do the recording part better, as it has more than a stereo out over USB and sounds like a good starting point
See the things is that this is a try and see type of thing too. You may find that trying to get it all in right at the beginning may end up actually limiting things in the future. One way to be comfortable is to just save up and throw some money at it and really get setup well. Here is an example of a very good but expensive heart of a system
https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/mixers/dm3/index.html
This is an interesting video to watch
But if you will be mostly just enjoying playing live and recording that as the result, then the using of the mouse and stuff will seriously get in the way of having fun. Here, a mixer with a serious mastering capability shines, and these are usually found in DJ type systems. There are two that are serious in my opinion. The Roland MX-1 that I recently acquired and the Roland DJ-707m. Please do take a moment and look these up. These are built for live use and the best way to jam with a karaoke playlist with mics and instruments. Since I picked the MX-1, I went with the DJ-202 instead just to add that playlist and karaoke live playing to the MX-1. Your Guitars would plug into individual input channels into either MX-1 or DJ-707m. These are expensive and the MX-1 can be hard to find. But they are great for family use. It opens up the messing with DJ gear for the kids and can be great fun at family gatherings
For us, we are seriously into the jamming together at home thing and doing that at fun parties and seriously sitting down to compose and remix accompaniment material beforehand. This started with a BR-800 and using that as the heart of a home recording. And finding that limited, moving up to a standard console into DAW setup, and again finding that limiting to live use. To now acquiring a serious DJ mixer set in form of the MX-1 and DJ-202. This has been quite an expensive investment for me, but the ease of access and use playing live in a home or party environment can't be matched with any other type of setups
This is why I keep prompting you to ponder your intended use. Traditional production ambitions, or would a DJ based production system? Which direction is more suitable for where you want to take this music thing for yourself and family?
Good to see that you are still at this, hope you have some fun along the way
Regards
Randy
@Tubelab_com , @WhiteDragon : right, while nothing is truly off the table, computer-only setup right now feels limiting. Partially, because of Linux.
Also, I won't have a dedicated computer: most likely I'll share the laptop with my wife. Occasionally might plug into one of the kid's desktops. I'm the only one in the family without a computer. 😉
I have zero experience with DAW. And relying on the computer implies taking special care about low latency: probably special kernel, drivers and interface, and other tweaks. Or keep a separate studio on a flash card, which is another hussle.
It feels like being able to mix, practice and monitor with the hardware and no computer, and being able to save to computer for occasional mastering is the way to go for me, at least in the beginning.
Also, I won't have a dedicated computer: most likely I'll share the laptop with my wife. Occasionally might plug into one of the kid's desktops. I'm the only one in the family without a computer. 😉
I have zero experience with DAW. And relying on the computer implies taking special care about low latency: probably special kernel, drivers and interface, and other tweaks. Or keep a separate studio on a flash card, which is another hussle.
It feels like being able to mix, practice and monitor with the hardware and no computer, and being able to save to computer for occasional mastering is the way to go for me, at least in the beginning.
Yes, most of it. Both my daughter and myself practice every day, she takes live lessons, and I've subscribed to Justin guitars, and we try to "jam" a couple of times a week (mostly, an occasional Arctic monkeys song).
She puts bass through the multieffect pedal, where she usually uses compressor and preamp. When we play together, we connect the pedal XLR to the amp's line in.
I practice unplugged half of the time. When I'm by myself, I use her pedal. Together, I plug into our bundled amps guitar input with overdrive, and she's on the line in.
I rarely use the standalone fuzz pedal but sometimes when she plays bass and I want to do some solo, like in "do I wanna know" by Arctic Monkeys.
I do use acoustic mostly as acoustic. But the pedal really makes it sound way more interesting, I plan to use it when we record it when I have a more convenient hookup. Now messing with the wires without any stand or pedal board is infuriating.
Bass -> multieffect pedal -> bundled cheap squire guitar amp
Strat -> optional fuzz or bass multieffect pedal -> bundled amp
Yes, barely, both go into the cheap fender app: strat directly, bass via pedal's XLR into the line in on the same amp.
30 years ago, in high school, with a bunch of friends recorded some acoustic guitar songs into a single mic to a consumer cassette tape 🙂 🙂 I think my mom still has it. 🙂
Yes
Yes
Not really comprehensive but yeah, kinda. I do not see us performing live but practice and record, yes, for fun.
if you do decide to use a DAW I would also recommend Reaper. It can also be used as a live effects rack, reasource usage is small so it will run fine on very old hardware unless you need to run loads of real-time effects. Used computers/tablets can be very cheap or free, although I also would prefer dedicated hardware for mixing.
I just have - these are thousand-dollar consoles, way above my current needs and ambitions. Besides, my interests are pretty far from DJing, I would say they are the opposite. I am more of a person who would record a track and mull it over, adjust this way and that, then perhaps lay over another one... I would be lost in a live setting with rough just-in-time adjustments to the mix. Not my thing at all.
I do see value to be able to plug in two or three instruments for practice, with necessary effects, and be able to adjust levels and such. But nothing very bombastic in real time.
Crocobar
Thanks for getting back with answers, man. You are right, those are fairly expensive units, but they are at the top of the tree in their own environment and I wanted to show you how my system evolved in a very short time with limitations and shortcomings of the previous setups. And also to show you what is possible for hands on live jamming with guest performers to prerecorded music. The Yamaha DM3 Digital mixer and the Roland MX-1/DJ-707m are the high end of small format consoles in their respective areas
The Yamaha DM3 is high end for small bands, the MX-1 is the top option for the home and live solo performer/producer with the ability to add guest performers while the DJ-707m sets the standard for mainly live use with pre-ordered music and adding 4 guest performers to that. This is also the price point where significant built in mastering abilities start featuring. By this I mean a completely polished sound recorded with no further tinkering in DAW. You seemed to show a disinterest in DAW based production, and it takes some serious hardware to get the mix right and polished without post-production
Your Allen and Heath mixer choice is actually a very good one. It has just the right amount of inputs and outputs for home use in the manner that you intend, and can comfortably mix a small ensemble for live monitoring and recording that output over USB as well as instrument track by track type
What it doesn't offer and will make you rely on the DAW is production abilities. Ok, so you will compose a guitar line and a bassline and play and record that with the A&H 10fx, maybe add some mic vocals. It will do that very well. Is your track only guitar, bass and vocals? I remember that you mentioned an occasional guest keyboard. So on that day you will have some complexity in your mix, but will you be reaching for some keys or synth sounds on another day? How about drum tracks? A good DAW will have a sequencer that you can make a drum track on to play along with. This is great at the start for practising and things, but I tired of that very quickly. It's like jamming with the sewing machine or the clock
At the point when we added the Yamaha MG12XU, Jiya had started learning the bass guitar and double bass at school and I had started thinking about learning to play the bass properly. Within one school term, we were already jamming along to existing music by turning the bass down on the track. Then I started laying down drum tracks using the DAW, and we started playing to that. And that was the dead end!
Mixers like the MX-1 and DJ-202 is where the interfering with that prerecorded multitrack audio like the drum tracks becomes possible. They let you shift and groove those tracks like nothing else and add an important fun aspect to jamming together
Btw, I am just reviewing my own use as means for live jamming and recording, rather than providing recommendations or advice. Again based on anything of interest worth exploring and taking away to add to your impending setup
So, allow me to list one more example of what we are doing. As I mentioned, we tired of practising and jamming with drum track from the DAW. We enjoyed jamming with existing songs. Now I want us to become more involved with the whole music. That's what the MX-1 is for, but this example is about still enjoying the existing songs. I want to take some of my favourite songs from Bollywood's black and white era like this
We already jam with this with the bass and double bass. Now I want to bring that track to the DJ-202 and sample sections from it onto the pads. Then create a modern sounding drum track using the internal drums and sequencer. Then bring in my stored samples to add some of the ambience of the classic into the mix. And record this back to the DAW as a stereo instrumental remix track. Thus producing a new accompanying track like this. This video shows setting up drums and changing sounds around
So I will plug in the bass to my DIY bass preamp, run a line from that to the MX-1. Run another line with a foot volume control inline to the Roland JD Xi where I will run a harmonica preset with synthy effects applied. Now I will play the harmonica pattern with the bass guitar with the treble wound right back to create a heavy reggae type bassline and use the foot control to also feed the guitar input on the JD Xi to simultaneously play the synth harmonica at the right times using the autonote feature
Thus adding another avenue of a major degree of complexity and fun to our jamming and production. A lot of this can be done with the DAW and a DJ program without hardware, but mousing around is no fun and at the end of the day it was false economy for me to keep struggling with inadequate hardware and upgrades upon upgrade. I sat down to discuss with my girls exactly what aspects of music they were interested in exploring, and thoroughly reviewed my own ambitions as to what I want to just have fun with and what I wanted seriously produce. I explored online all the equipment that would make it possible and end up with that shortlist being the MX-1, DJ-202, JD Xi, Akai FIRE, DIY tube preamps, DIY stereo monitors, DIY low frequency monitor, class D amp modules from Erica.C
A very expensive investment for our family budget, but with all of our keen interest in this, my wife was happy for us to scrimp elsewhere and acquire these items using means like PayPal pay in four and the MX-1 especially with Zip's $10 a week payback scheme but paying back $25 a week set amount to finish that earlier and avoid some interest. We didn't have other debts, so we could do this. Starting around the new year and now four months later, we have all the pieces paid for except for the MX-1 which is still ongoing. The gyals were excited enough about the new gear that my wife wanted our new place prettied up to par before we unpack them. I just am scared about getting fingermarks and fluff on them 😀 😀
Folks, I looked at all options, and it looks like I need to choose between A&H ZEDi-10FX ($300) and Behringer XENYX X1204USB ($209). I see four differences that matter to me, of which probably only one really matters - the compression. Please check me, perhaps I am missing something:
What else am I missing? Based on the above, it looks like I should get the Behringer.
P.S.
- A&H has hi-Z inputs, but with the pedals, it does not matter much.
- A&H has 4-channel interface, Behringer - stereo-only but I doubt I need to record more than 2 at a time.
- A&H does not have compression (?!) - this one matters, I think!
- Behringer has full effects loop, A&H has FX send, which can be returned to one of stereo inputs. Probably just fine.
What else am I missing? Based on the above, it looks like I should get the Behringer.
P.S.
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I have only had very bad experiences with the XENYX X10something that I bought new. It was noisy and the USB section went brick after a few months. I thought the A&H had the same fx ability as the Xenyx. Hey man, there are some equipment made just for the uses that you mention made by Roland under the Boss brand. Have you looked at these?
https://www.boss.info/au/products/eband_js-10/specifications/
This offers exactly what you are after and will remove the need for the pedals too
https://www.boss.info/au/products/eband_js-10/specifications/
This offers exactly what you are after and will remove the need for the pedals too
That's a bummer unless you got unlucky. Could anybody else say something about the noise/reliability of this Behringer compared to A&H?
.
UPDATE: I checked the ratings on amazon, and the metric I usually use is how the tail of the bad ratings look like. For Behringer, it is
*** 6%
** 2%
* 2%
Which I gotta say is stellar. A&H, it is not bad but worse:
*** 6%
** 4%
* 5%
Yes, I think that's about right for the FX model.
It only has 2 inputs, and I am not sure about the interface. The price is around $500 it seems. It does have the speakers but... I am not sure I need them. All in all, does not look like a very good fit. Thanks for the option though!
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I have the Behringer QX1002 USB. Has dynamic range compressors on the first two channels - very important in my experience. I bought my son a similar one with 4 channels of compression. Now before you say "I already got a compressor" you need that on every input, particularly if you'd like the straight up live vs memorex (recorded...) capability. If someone sings, I see 3 channels of compression necessary.
Just my 2 cents, FWIW, TWYLALTR; only mentioning it because I didnt see it mentioned yet as a necessary feature. My 8 channel mixer in the garage doesnt have this, so I have to jam the mic and guitar signals through a ART tube compressor, using it as a two channel mixer, just to be able to stand any sounds I make.
Just my 2 cents, FWIW, TWYLALTR; only mentioning it because I didnt see it mentioned yet as a necessary feature. My 8 channel mixer in the garage doesnt have this, so I have to jam the mic and guitar signals through a ART tube compressor, using it as a two channel mixer, just to be able to stand any sounds I make.
Uh, I'm sorry I cant really comment on it. Mine sits on a shelf; I thought I was going to use it for in-home jams too, but that didnt pan out. So now I play guitar by myself on Friday nights, out in a detached garage, using a different brand mixer. The Behringer;
- It has no on/off switch. Bizarre way to save money, but you have to unplug the power supply to turn it off.
- My model has "Klark-Tecknik" effects built in, which sound fine AFAICT. I asume because of that digital processing, it runs pretty hot and seems like something you wouldnt want to leave on over the weekend accidentally.
- I've never shorted all the inputs, moved all the slides up to the top to see how much noise it makes, into an amp with ordinary line level inputs, into speakers with ordinary db / watt efficiency. Never connected my oscilloscope to its outputs under those conditions either; I truly have no idea.
- I have some other similar Behringer mixer as a parts board; build seems commensurate with other modern SMD double-sided PCB stuff.