I have measured the Fanes without baffle on the floor cone sidewards. All the 15" have Qms around 14 (impedance peak ~175ohm) and the 12" around 8 (impedance peak 105-120ohm). The EBP is around 100-110 (lower than specced) in the 15" model and between 130-140 in the 12" model (very close to spec all 12"). The 15" has vented spider, thats the main reason for high Qms as neither uses silicone damped spider. Only the pva dope of the upper surround increases friction but its (or some other dope) usually necessary to make the surround non-leaky (air).
PD drivers have almost always very high Qms!
I dont know what is considered high Qms. With very low loss suspension and very open frame and ventilated spider the Qms can be very high, over 20.
PD drivers have almost always very high Qms!
I dont know what is considered high Qms. With very low loss suspension and very open frame and ventilated spider the Qms can be very high, over 20.
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Nice, what woofers are you using atm? Those Studio 15 Fanes are regarded quite highly as I understand, never heard them myself. Not made in china like new Fanes.
Nice, what woofers are you using atm? Those Studio 15 Fanes are regarded quite highly as I understand, never heard them myself. Not made in china like new Fanes.
Current woofers are Sicas with 3" motor and light, uncoated cones.
I've a weak spot for semi-instrument woofers, like the old JBL E-145, some Electro-Voice, Celestion drivers, as well as the Fane Studio series.
I've only listened to one of the Fanes in the original bass cab. Playing fullrange it delivers a very articulate, open midrange (similar to your 12s in the video) and snappy kick-bass. It's also extremely efficient.
Such woofers are becoming a rarity.
Sicas seem very nice! I like the open and vented chassis, would like to hear them one day. I also considered the 15" 3" vc "K3PL" (copper short ring) Sica when planning the woofers for the bass modules (for like 3 months). Eventually the Fanes came to me on a platter, both recently discontinued models (now MOQ 50pcs I presume) which still had some leftover stock. I payed ~135£ for a piece for 15" and 119£ per piece for the 12"
Yep, those kind of drivers are the magic. Low moving mass, low loss suspension, balanced sounding (preferably untreated?) paper/mixture cones (I like also the carbon fibre fane also although was sceptical at first) driven by a good motor and high motoric force vs. the moving mass (simplest indicator high EBP). My favourite genre of drivers, musical machines. Also the "guild of the kick bass" is just a consequence of said things and the resulting ability to energize the cone on a wider bandwidth like the music, transients and harmonics need.
). Eventually the Fanes came to me on a platter, both recently discontinued models (now MOQ 50pcs I presume) which still had some leftover stock. I payed ~135£ for a piece for 15" and 119£ per piece for the 12"Yep, those kind of drivers are the magic. Low moving mass, low loss suspension, balanced sounding (preferably untreated?) paper/mixture cones (I like also the carbon fibre fane also although was sceptical at first
) driven by a good motor and high motoric force vs. the moving mass (simplest indicator high EBP). My favourite genre of drivers, musical machines. Also the "guild of the kick bass" is just a consequence of said things and the resulting ability to energize the cone on a wider bandwidth like the music, transients and harmonics need.
That is Colossal looking! Nice work, Legis!
Very impressive wall of sound. I suspect with all the high sensitivity drivers you have, normal listening levels are what 400mW?
Hmm, woofer arrays are around 110dB/2,83V (2w) sensitive in 2Pi conditions. Load them with boundaries (the room is basically like the inside of a speaker cabinet and one wall the speaker), make that stereo and input 2x0,4W, that's quite loud already
.Oh sh*t they are fun and good speakers even with proto xo. Have been listening them with 2-way
D)setup with Usher horns and TD-4001. I think they are already the best speakers I have ever owned The TD-4001 shows it's best attributes now when it does not dominate the woofers anymore, very balanced until ears give up so dynamic abilities of the bands finally match. 2x15" is slightly too small for beast driver like td-4001. It's like a diesel motor car, it just keeps on going no matter where the volume points. If you hit a wall with the car, it just shrugs off the dust and still keeps going like nothing happenedSame horn but slightly smaller looking than in my Ushers
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Here are some 2-way sounds. The same xo as I used with the "little Colossus" videos ie. only 1mH coil for low pass for the woofers.
Link: 2-way test Colossus - YouTube
Funny setup on paper but it works. Fully transistor signal path with cheapo SMSL M100 dac and slightly grainy pro-amp, but works surprisingly well even with "usually difficult to pair with sand amps" Tad.
I'm really starting to like the 12" Fanes, they do something with many electric quitar sounds, vocals etc. It has some similarity to the clarity effect the Tad has. And some sounds jump out from the mix with very good separation and life-like presence which is easy on the ear.
Logical sound from this "coaxial" emulation even though the array does not get smaller with smaller wavelenghts until the xo point. I haven't quite grasped everything yet. Mid radiator this big reminds me of a door sized electrostatics in some way how the sounds coexist in the same radiator. The bass has really tremendous kick And twice as more "headphone like" as less wide line arrays were. Sealed array wall bass is really worth it.
Step and FR of right channel:
Phase matching not perfect with the test hack, but very small phase shift at least. Little Harsch-like phase?
(time window 8ms)
Pointless checking the excess group delay of sealed 2-way but I did it anyway:
Link: 2-way test Colossus - YouTube
Funny setup on paper but it works
. Fully transistor signal path with cheapo SMSL M100 dac and slightly grainy pro-amp, but works surprisingly well even with "usually difficult to pair with sand amps" Tad.I'm really starting to like the 12" Fanes, they do something with many electric quitar sounds, vocals etc. It has some similarity to the clarity effect the Tad has. And some sounds jump out from the mix with very good separation and life-like presence which is easy on the ear.
Logical sound from this "coaxial" emulation even though the array does not get smaller with smaller wavelenghts until the xo point. I haven't quite grasped everything yet. Mid radiator this big reminds me of a door sized electrostatics in some way how the sounds coexist in the same radiator. The bass has really tremendous kick
And twice as more "headphone like" as less wide line arrays were. Sealed array wall bass is really worth it.Step and FR of right channel:
Phase matching not perfect with the test hack, but very small phase shift at least.
Little Harsch-like phase?(time window 8ms)
Pointless checking the excess group delay of sealed 2-way but I did it anyway:
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Now the woofers are low passed 2nd order, better than 1st order (like in Ushers also was).
Well look at that bass region EGD from the listening spot and 500ms time window.
The power response, I presume, is very even with this 2-way setup. Frequency response measured from the living room (behind the sofa) is very even and no discernable bumps or dips near the xo frequency. Very good acoustic space fillers for a horn speaker.
L+R Colossus sweep measured from living room, mic pointing towards the listening room's door (3m away from the door). Very undirect sound what radiates from the "mixer" room.
(Also a clip here: Colossus, listening spot vs leaked sound field - YouTube)
Well look at that bass region EGD from the listening spot and 500ms time window.
The power response, I presume, is very even with this 2-way setup. Frequency response measured from the living room (behind the sofa) is very even and no discernable bumps or dips near the xo frequency. Very good acoustic space fillers for a horn speaker.
L+R Colossus sweep measured from living room, mic pointing towards the listening room's door (3m away from the door). Very undirect sound what radiates from the "mixer" room.
(Also a clip here: Colossus, listening spot vs leaked sound field - YouTube)
Been having some great time since the walls have been standing. Can't get over this previously unexplored kick bass in many songs, it's so next level even compared to my previous Synergy horns. It's sheer violent dry kick unlike anything I have ever heard.
Guild of the kick bass - YouTube
The Yuichi horns and the adapters for Faitals have been progressing. I'm quite eager to receive them, with some luck next week.
Guild of the kick bass - YouTube
The Yuichi horns and the adapters for Faitals have been progressing. I'm quite eager to receive them, with some luck next week.
I don't think the decreased room interaction comes from power vs room size but from radiation area vs room size. It will give a more even room, excitation.
As they are closed box I guess they would be a Little underdimensioned for a venue of the size of the Royal Albert Hall.
I was once interested in building a closed box WMTMW with 18" woofers but I fear that it wouldn't have had a lot of LF headroom compared to its huge size.
Regards
Charles
As they are closed box I guess they would be a Little underdimensioned for a venue of the size of the Royal Albert Hall.
I was once interested in building a closed box WMTMW with 18" woofers but I fear that it wouldn't have had a lot of LF headroom compared to its huge size.
Regards
Charles
I would be worried if my gf didn't support or at least okayed my hobby, my speakers are not in the living room after all
. I like the freedom of separate hifi room, just bought a new black furry carpet on the floor which does not look like a "perfect match" sitting next to the blue furry carpet, but my inner feng shui decorator with high-pitch voice does not mindNot in 2pi environment or in a room with very bass-leaky walls. But in a typical room the sensitivity at low infra bass can be enormous with sealed systems. I'd like to test the system with dc-connected signal chain and a calibrated mic (from 1hz).
The digital Radioshack SPL meter shows 110-120db levels (C-weighting, fast setting) with under 2volts in the speaker wire when listened in stereo
. Every driver sees half of the driving voltage since they are in pairs of two connected in series.